Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 Thoughts on an urban site Previous Next
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Katelynrose
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Username: Katelynrose

Post Number: 1
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 1:21 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So i'm looking into doing a theoretical project on the recently partially demoed site across the street from the abandoned united artists theater, where the people mover wraps around, at the corners of bagley, park, washington and clifford. i feel as though some kind of transitional housing, that would attract people as well as eliminate some street dwellers, would be a great help to that specific urban area. i am looking for opinions or suggestions...or just plain comments!
thanks guys!
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Downtown_remix
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Username: Downtown_remix

Post Number: 126
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 1:59 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HELL TO THE NAW,build your transitional housing in the miles and miles of empty land in the hood, not in the theater district.
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 352
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 2:00 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

one of my dreams, if i had some extra money laying around, would be to construct a homeless hotel... I read about one in NYC. It's kind of like a hostel, but far cheaper, like a shelter, but self sufficient. Homeless could come and stay for $3-5 a night, it would be safe, they could store their things, maybe get a little bread and jam, but would have to not be carrying drugs or booze and do like an hour of chores.

aside from aiding the homeless and making the luckier residents living downtown more comfortable walking about by clearing the streets a bit, i think this type of deal would (A) provide more shelter space, and (B) enstill a little more pride in the homelss that utilized the service.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4096
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 2:08 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

and (C) have more pain-in-the-ass panhandlers annoying people around Grand Circus Park... which is already inhabited by them...

Sorry to sound like Scrooge, but that is why a lot of people don't utilize Grand Circus Park to its fullest potential.

Whenever I walk through there, it's almost like a game.... what route can you take thru that maze to avoid getting hit up for money...

(Message edited by Gistok on April 06, 2007)
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 353
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 2:13 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

maybe that kind of thing would need to go somewhere else? i mean a little further from downtown... maybe there could be a job training and search program? a relocation program? maybe there could be some way to discourage panhandling, or encourage busking? who knows, man, i just know that instead of avoiding the homeless, we need to start getting creative with solutions to the problem of homelessness, especially in tough economic times like these in our city and state...
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4098
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 2:27 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now you're talking Andylinn.... Your heart is in the right spot... just the wrong location! :-)
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Katelynrose
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Username: Katelynrose

Post Number: 2
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 2:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well what if the design could consider that its in the theater district, and utilize all the issues involved with the location, in addition how the people mover oddly wraps the site, to its greatest potential? i guess a larger gathering of homeless in that area would cause a greater problem...but i felt like there were so many in that area, that something has to be done to aid them, even though the exact area does not welcome them...
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Southen
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Username: Southen

Post Number: 130
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 3:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where will Quicken's HQ go then?
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Wolverine
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Username: Wolverine

Post Number: 304
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 3:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cleveland
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Mw2gs
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Username: Mw2gs

Post Number: 257
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 3:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is already one of these up Woodward near the Davison
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Mw2gs
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Username: Mw2gs

Post Number: 258
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 3:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is already one of these up Woodward near the Davison
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Jelk
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Username: Jelk

Post Number: 4317
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 3:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is a joke right? Please tell me this thread is a joke?
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Chris_rohn
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Username: Chris_rohn

Post Number: 286
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 3:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Katelynrose,

Research the site before you propose transitional housing.

In fact, research transitional housing before you propose transitional housing.

What kind of project is this for? Are you a student somewhere?
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Detroitrulez
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Username: Detroitrulez

Post Number: 208
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 4:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

First step in getting your project off the ground is a BID ("Business Improvement District"). I would contact Anthony Pieroni, owner of the Building and Parking Theater on Bagley. He is a big supporter of getting a BID in place.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 761
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 7:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In theory, if there are already quite a few homeless people in that area, why not build a shelter for them? I mean 'corale' them into a building and take care of them there so that they aren't out on the street or in Grand Circus! In the end, wouldn't that solve some problems, rather than create more?
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Dds
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Username: Dds

Post Number: 200
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 9:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You say "corale"<sic> but it sounds like you mean "intern." No matter what you meant, it's a pretty stupid and seemingly unconstitutional idea.
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Katelynrose
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Username: Katelynrose

Post Number: 3
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 2:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well thank you charlottepaul.
that is what i thought.

yes i am a student at the rhode island school of design in providence, ri. keep in mind these are preliminary thoughts, and i have not nearly completed my research yet...
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Katelynrose
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Username: Katelynrose

Post Number: 4
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 3:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

why is it an unconstitutional idea?
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Skulker
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Username: Skulker

Post Number: 3755
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 3:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Katelynrose: I will put on the kid gloves for you as you seem to have gotten smacked a little already.

The idea is a very bad idea.

Homeless people congregate where there is opportunity....Opportunity for shelter...Opportunity for food...Opportunity for panhandling

Homeless congregate along Washington and near the old Statler site for several reasons....

The old Tinkertoy was a giant shower and bath for them, the Statler provided shelter and St. Als provided food. Panhandling is good in Grand Circus Park during games.

The tinkertoy and Statler are gone, but St. Als is still providing food and CGP is still a good place to panhandle.

Perhaps a better use for the Statler site is to develop high tax base uses that can help fund the building of additional shelters. This could be done in conjunction with St. Als, which could move their food outreach to this new location.

This is a far more sustainable strategy than taking high value land, converting it to a low value use (and therefore low tax revenue) and dragging down the values of other, nearby properties at the same time. If the city is bankrupt and has shortcircuited its own ability to generate tax base, then the services already provided to the homeless will cease entirely. The Statler site has the potential to generate a LOT of taxes and to boost neighboring values, thereby raising even more taxes.

A more suitable and much lower value location with far less impact on neighbors can be found elsewhere in the City. Provide the shelter and food there and, believe me, the very, very mobile homeless people will find and use it.
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 406
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 4:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Skulker, I am truly impressed with your restraint. When I saw you were the last poster, I expected something much different. ;)
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Bearinabox
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Username: Bearinabox

Post Number: 156
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 4:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why's it have to be in the city? Put 'em at Long Lake and Woodward.
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Skulker
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Username: Skulker

Post Number: 3757
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 4:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

She's an artist from out of town, I'm a numbers guy, I have to show a little restraint every now and then....

That and she actually seems to value the opinions of locals and does not imperiously tell us we are stupid when her facts are wrong...like someone else we know
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Dds
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Username: Dds

Post Number: 203
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 4:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

why is it an unconstitutional idea?



Well, let's say you were "rounded up" against your will. Sort of like the Japanese-Americans during WWII. Not a great analogy, but it's the best I could think of spur of the moment. I seem to remember during my U-M days that homeless activists won a suit against the city for doing this on football Saturdays. Then again, activists brought suits against everyone for anything in Ann Arbor in the 80's.
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Iddude313
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Username: Iddude313

Post Number: 60
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 2:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

bums...ship em off to Birmingham.
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Katelynrose
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Username: Katelynrose

Post Number: 5
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 2:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

im not forcing anybody to do anything here i dont think...

also im an architecture student very interested and curious about the extreme homeless population in the city...these are my motives...your comments are very interesting to me and i am certainly taking them into consideration...
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Skulker
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Username: Skulker

Post Number: 3767
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 2:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Obligatory snide comment: Homeless people don't have buildings, kind of odd interest for an architecture student...social work maybe, but architecture? I have an inkling that architectural solutions are pretty far down on the list as effective solutions. I would start with looking into the programs that have met with success in other cities and whether architecture and design can play a role enhancing these programs. The most impact would likely come from interior programming, not necessarily from proximity to People Movers.

Are you sure there is an "extreme homeless population" in Detroit? Is the number as a raw number and as a percentage of regional population that high?

I ask that seriously. I don't where Detroit ranks in terms of number and percentage of population homeless. Have you done that research? Is that what drew you to Detroit's homeless population instead of say, Boston's, NYCity's, or even Providence's?
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Chris_rohn
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Username: Chris_rohn

Post Number: 287
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 2:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I had a feeling you were an architecture student. You said the people mover "wraps" the site. The terminology gave you away.

The first thing you're going to need to do is determine what is more important for your project: the site or helping the homeless.

If your professor gave you the site, the best you're going to be able to do to aid economically depressed folks is to design a mixed use development that takes "low income" housing into consideration.

This site is no place for a homeless shelter. Designate a number of smaller housing units within the development for those who may have once been homeless but are at the final stage of integrating back into society - they now have jobs and are learning to pay their bills. Keep in mind the majority of the housing units would best be suited as market rate housing.

Take into account retail, office, housing, entertainment. Consider the abandoned United Artists theater across the street and how the possibilities for that building will affect what you are proposing for the Statler site.

Preserve the AAA Building and make it a part of your mixed use development.

These are things you should consider if your professor has designated a site-specific project.

If you're doing a project as a proposal to help homeless people, I would strongly urge you to choose another site.
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Swingline
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Username: Swingline

Post Number: 780
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 3:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

katelyn, post the details of your assignment and the forumers will complete it for you. Is the assignment for a planning class or a design class? Be forewarned though, forumers provide no guarantees on the grade they will obtain for you.

P.S., placing some kind of shelter facility on that site would violate more principles of proper urban planning than I can count. But hey, if that's your assignment, good luck.
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Katelynrose
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Username: Katelynrose

Post Number: 6
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 4:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well we took a trip there over spring break so i was able to get a feel for the area and understand what occurs in that location. i was constantly conscious of the homeless people mingling in that specific area.
and yes i have done my research, though unfinished, but i have found intense stats on the homeless population in detroit. 1 in 3 live below the poverty line, iand ts america's poorest "big city" (2005). supposedly more than 10000 people sleep on the streets every night.

what are you suggesting then, a mall?
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Susanarosa
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Username: Susanarosa

Post Number: 1431
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 4:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just because folks are poor/under the poverty line doesn't mean they need a homeless shelter...
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Katelynrose
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Username: Katelynrose

Post Number: 7
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 4:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i didnt say that i was simply providing stats for skulker
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Katelynrose
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Username: Katelynrose

Post Number: 8
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 4:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

does anyone have a picture of the front facade of the aaa building?
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Gibran
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Username: Gibran

Post Number: 184
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 5:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In Fayette ville a project for transitional housing with the local homeless shelter resulted in a interesting program. Having worked with homeless vets ( gulf war ) and creating housing for them I is a worthwhile project. Some VietNam folks had a hard time in the confines of a home.

The Seven Hills Project was very cool in it's design...and while these folks "at times bother us" they are people first...many are vets with PTSD and Psyc. patients whose programs have been cut.

If we don't like the numbers now; come back in five years when our new vets are homeless and struggling...

Finding space that could have Job Training as an alternative to panhandling would be good...you will then sort out those who need a little help from those who have embraced this lifestyle.
The key is that the majority are people with mental health issues that have not been treated for a long time, and those who have PTSD who need a little hope and understanding.

It is great that you recognize the need...It sure is better than those who trip over the blind guy on the way to church and push the beggars away after services to get to their SUV and speed off thinking they have done everything correctly and gripping about the conditions of the world...Off my soap..
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Eric
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Username: Eric

Post Number: 769
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 5:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Like Swingline said, market rate housing is best option for the area. Park Ave north of Grand Circus Park has seen many new bars and restaurants opened in last few years The condo portion of the Book-Cadillac hotel renovation just down Washington has all, but sold out with some units topping 1.5 million. The last thing the thing this slowing up and coming area needs is some glorified homeless shelter
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 772
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 8:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Homeless people don't have buildings, kind of odd interest for an architecture student...social work maybe, but architecture?"

Skulker, there are a lot of professions that attempt to provide their services for those that cannot afford them. Why should architecture be any different?
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Katelynrose
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Username: Katelynrose

Post Number: 10
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 9:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yeah exactly. i was curious about that comment as well skulker. architecture should not just be about high class, innovative design that is only say, attainable for certain individuals. that is what is being taught to us in school, actually, but i totally disagree. it frustrates me so much sometimes.
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Chris_rohn
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Username: Chris_rohn

Post Number: 288
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 10:02 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

katelynrose,

you still havent told us if your project is site-specific. we want to help you and get you information, but you have to tell us what you were assigned.
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Chris_rohn
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Username: Chris_rohn

Post Number: 289
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 10:06 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

and we're definitely not suggesting a mall.
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Skulker
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Username: Skulker

Post Number: 3768
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 10:42 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

"Homeless people don't have buildings, kind of odd interest for an architecture student...social work maybe, but architecture?"

Skulker, there are a lot of professions that attempt to provide their services for those that cannot afford them. Why should architecture be any different?....
yeah exactly. i was curious about that comment as well skulker. architecture should not just be about high class, innovative design that is only say, attainable for certain individuals. that is what is being taught to us in school, actually, but i totally disagree. it frustrates me so much sometimes.



Allow me to clarify my statement, I knew when I put it up that I would need to clarify it, just didn't have time for a better explication.

Architecture is a component of the solutions to homelessness. However, it takes subordinate role to other disciplines such as social work. Any architecturally based attempt at solving homeless issues will fail utterly. Architecture alone cannot solve social issues. Any person who believes so is either an idiot or an ego maniac of epic proportions.(You listening Andres Duany?)

Simply picking a site based on a visit during spring break where you saw some homeless people and trying to force a solution on that site absent any context of the real issues surrounding homelessness is forcing a square peg into a round hole.

If you TRULY want to do something about homeless issues as an architect, learn about your client first. What is the real issue for homeless folks in Detroit? Is it lack of beds and space? Are there simply not enough beds and square footage? If so, that requires one set of solutions, a component of which is architecturally based, such as low cost, high quality design to get space delivered quickly in a time of budget cuts.

Perhaps there are enough beds and squarefootage in shelters to accommodate the homeless, but they don't use the shelters because of their impersonality (group showers or some such nonsense or they don't provide adequate support services. These issues requires completely different set of solutions, a component of which is design based. Homeless people interact very differently with their built environment than other people. There are nuances that only experience can teach you about their very different interactions with built space.

The point is that architecture is a support piece, not a solution to homelessness. Picking a site and designing an architecture based solution without the other disciplines to guide is the height of arrogance.

Here's my suggestion, if you TRULY care about homeless folks. Find a couple shelters / support services closer to you and get to know what their very specific needs are and design a real and feasible project. Or take a semester to work here in close conjunction with a shelter or service provider.

Otherwise, designing a form based solution on an inappropriate site from hundreds of miles away without working closely with people in the field is quite the height of arrogance and will provide no feasible solution.

BTW, I agree with Susuanrosa. Poverty does not equal homelessness. They are quite different life situations and require very different solutions, a component of which is form based. I still haven't seen any postings from our erstwhile architect that show an intimate knowledge of the numbers and causes of homelessness in Detroit. Just the assertion that there is an extreme problem.

So...ask yourself...are you doing the necessary work and collaborating to design a truly effective building to help the support providers do their job better? Is the need really more squarefootage or is it improvements to existing squarefootage?

Or are you swanning around, stroking your ego pounding square pegs into round holes?

Based on your posts so far, it really appears to be the latter.
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 1230
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 10:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

San Francisco recently received acres of prime property with the closure of the Presidio by to dept. of Defense. There was a running debate in the Examiner, and other papers and websites about how to best use the property.
There actually was a vocal contingent who wanted to make it a refuge for the homeless (who practically own the city already). A number of surprisingly sane people wrote in and tactfully suggested that some of the income earned from the sale of this prime real estate could fund a homeless shelter and/or social programs aimed at converting the homeless into employed and housed folk--south of Market st.
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Llyn
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Username: Llyn

Post Number: 1803
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 11:06 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I say that we build a hotel for the homeless in downtown Birmingham. Let the Republicans know the consequences that happen when their former governor closes all the state mental institutions and dumps all those people out on the streets.

<----------- Not particularly right or left or even political. Just making a point about what happens when part of society doesn't experience the consequences of their actions. Let's share!
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Bearinabox
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Username: Bearinabox

Post Number: 160
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 6:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey, didn't John Engler move out of state? Maybe Katelynrose should find out his new address (I believe it's in Virginia), buy up all the adjacent property, and build something there.
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Rfban
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Username: Rfban

Post Number: 59
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 7:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmmmm, something is odd here.... I haven't figured it out yet...
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Ray
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Username: Ray

Post Number: 877
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 8:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Llynn,

So sick of the slams on this forum about
Birmingham. Birmingham is a naturally ally to the urbanist cause of this forum.

Birmingham is a traditional city with a rapidly urbanizing and diverse downtown -- and homeless people too. Out of all the places in southeast michigan to pick on, it strikes me as really dumb to have this constant, uniformed negativity to Birmingham. Go to Birmngham on any Saturday night, and you will see great diversity, including a substantial number of Blacks enjoying the city.

The blueblood Repubicans you seem to hate don't go to downtown Birminham anymore. They have foresaken it because its becoming too diverse and to urbanized.

But go ahead, slam Birmingham. Smash every example of successful urbanism in the region. Accellerate our decline through endless, uniformed internecerine snipping.

Birminhgam is a huge asset for Southeast Michigan because it attracts and retains out-of-state people who love city living but aren't quite ready for Detroit (or maybe Detroit isn't quite ready for them). Lose Birmingham and the flight of corporations from southeast Michigan will only accellerate.

I HATE living here.
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Katelynrose
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Username: Katelynrose

Post Number: 12
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 1:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

haha i was kidding about the mall, chris.

my assignment is extremely open. i cant basically design whatever i want and i also chose the site from 5 sites that were given to us. i am interested in this odd site that incorporates so much of the people mover and how i would use that in the design of the area. i might be shifting gears to remember this area as a theater district as some had suggested earlier. im looking to the WPA and the FTP as inspiration. kind of!
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Skulker
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Username: Skulker

Post Number: 3776
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 1:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So helping the homeless was only a passing fancy...nice.

Must have seemed like too much work or something.
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Katelynrose
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Username: Katelynrose

Post Number: 14
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 2:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

omg i am an undereducated student in the midst of my architecture education. im sorry im working on a learning project that im going to learn from and i am not a licensed architect working in reality quite yet!
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Katelynrose
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Username: Katelynrose

Post Number: 15
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 2:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

did u think i was really going to design something that was really going to be built?
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Swingline
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Username: Swingline

Post Number: 784
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 2:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

So helping the homeless was only a passing fancy...nice.

Must have seemed like too much work or something.

Geez, lighten the fuck up Skulker. Katelyn has said nothing in this thread to indicate that she numbers in the countless outsiders that observe Detroit for a hot second and then proceed to tsk-tsk about the shortcomings and comment about how stupid the locals must be to let their city deteriorate so far. Rather, she has clearly presented herself as a student with an unprejudiced interest in our city and a desire to explore solutions. Your hostility and condescencion only serve to create a perception that the people "still here" are a bunch of pricks and assholes. Well speak for yourself. Save your ire for know-it-alls who don't know anything and stop offending people who are taking a positive approach to Detroit.
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Skulker
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Username: Skulker

Post Number: 3779
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 4:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eat a bag of poop Swingline. This isn't about "still here" attitude. This is about a student that wants to do some design work and presented herself as wanting to help the homeless. When confronted with the real work needed to do that, that passion suddenly does away. I find that to be fickle and puts our young artists in the dilletente category. Put on your big boy pants if you find that to be too harsh. She wanted feedback and opinion. She got it unvarnished. Go to SesameStreetYes.com if you want sunshine and butterflies and no raw opinions.

Katelynrose first positioned herself as wanting to do some sort of homeless housing at the site with a "something needs to be done!" attitude.

She provided no rationale for that other than she saw some homeless people there and there's lots of poor people in Detroit. When challenged to do something that would require learning, effort and commitiment, she backed off, all goals of helping homeless people apparently evaporated.

It now appears she just wants to play around with design at the site...

Fine, but say that more clearly from the get go and don't be a whiner when called out. If she wanted to learn, she would challenge herself and take the tougher road. She has instead taken the softer road. My opinion, which was neutralish in my first post has now changed to "waste of time".

At Katelynrose dear, the idea of class exercises is to make them as real as possible. If you are hiding behind "It'll never get built anyway, so I don't actually have to do hard work", you will get your ass handed to you in the real world as you arrive unprepared.
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Lowell
Board Administrator
Username: Lowell

Post Number: 3798
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 5:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^RI School of Design should fly Skulker out as a guest lecturer. Seriously.

One the most interesting solutions I saw a few years back, created by artists, were modded shopping carts, that had lock-up spaces, converted to shelters and more, that were then passed out to happy clients.

The visible face of Detroit's homeless is less, if anything,than in other cities I have visited because of the surfeit of abandoned properties that provide shelter and spread them out.

Low rents here keep many more from falling over an edge, that in other cities would make them homeless. Recent trips to Venice Beach in CA and South Beach in Miami found crowds of homeless. But, hey, if I fell into that unfortunate state, I guess I would head there too - just like Ratso Rico tried to do.

Another big unseen face of the homeless are the mobile homeless. They live in beaters or, if they are lucky, in an old Winnebago or school bus. Lots of this in CA, so I was told, some of which I saw. I've know a couple of people to do that here in the D too. Purportedly they are working poor who can scratch enough together to keep the ride, but not enough to get a house.
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Supersport
Member
Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11497
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 5:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Skulker,

Always entertaining...always entertaining my friend. :-)
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Katelynrose
Member
Username: Katelynrose

Post Number: 16
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 8:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

wow. thats all i have to say.
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Katelynrose
Member
Username: Katelynrose

Post Number: 17
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 11:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

you've obviously never heard about risd or been here, skulker.
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Katelynrose
Member
Username: Katelynrose

Post Number: 18
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 11:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Rather, she has clearly presented herself as a student with an unprejudiced interest in our city and a desire to explore solutions"

"stop offending people who are taking a positive approach to Detroit."

-thank you swingline.

this is all im doing. definitely exploring solutions, great way to put it. no more, no less.
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Skulker
Member
Username: Skulker

Post Number: 3780
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 9:21 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Go Nads! I sure do know a lot about RISD.

Look, you may think I am being a little harsh and perhaps I am, but the reality is that Detroit and SE Mich are in a boatload of trouble here. There is no time for goofing around and I am tired of the dumbass posts on this forum that positing a useless and ill conceived solution is "taking a positive approach to Detroit".

ITS NOT.


Plain and simple. Its kinda like thinking if you send little cancer boy Jeffrey an email so he gets in the Guiness Book of World Records, somehow leukemia will come to an end.

A student flighting around exploring "solutions" when the problem is not defined or researched is not doing something positive. Its playtime. And I refuse to think that playtime is "taking a positive approach to Detroit". God help the region if people do think that way.
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Llyn
Member
Username: Llyn

Post Number: 1809
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 10:24 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Alright, c'mon...

quote:

Llynn,
So sick of the slams on this forum about
Birmingham.



I admit I was using B'ham generically and didn't explain that. And I should also clarify that I've met some very nice people in B'ham. But...

quote:

Birmingham is a naturally ally to the urbanist cause of this forum.



My feelings about Birmingham are informed by a variety of factors, not the least of which is a large meeting I sat in with the then city planning director five or six years ago, or so. She went on and on and on and on about what a great city B'ham is... describing it as "four square miles of paradiise surrounded by reality".

Natural ally of Detroit? Bull.

I've met too many people from that town that are arrogant about their city.

quote:

Birmingham is a traditional city with a rapidly urbanizing and diverse downtown -- and homeless people too.



Yet to see one homeless person there. Not saying there aren't, but you can't even compare that town to RO, much less Detroit.

quote:

Out of all the places in southeast michigan to pick on, it strikes me as really dumb to have this constant, uniformed negativity to Birmingham. Go to Birmngham on any Saturday night, and you will see great diversity



Have done so. See mostly whites except at the theatres. Not seeing a lot of "great deversity", personally. Besides, most of the real difference is economic, not racial.

quote:

The blueblood Repubicans you seem to hate



I specifcally stated that I wasn't a liberal or conservative or even terribly political. Go back and read my post.

quote:

don't go to downtown Birminham anymore. They have foresaken it because its becoming too diverse and to urbanized.



You're saying that Birmingham isn't majority republican? Bull again.

quote:

But go ahead, slam Birmingham. Smash every example of successful urbanism in the region. Accellerate our decline through endless, uniformed internecerine snipping.



You're saying that Engler closing the mental hospitals didn't cause a problem? Not to mention the direct consequences to the people who were in those institutions?

Maybe you could get Birmingham and Bloomfield Hills and Troy, etc., to accept a few (more?) of those homeless people the Republican governor dumped on the streets.

quote:

Birminhgam is a huge asset for Southeast Michigan because it attracts and retains out-of-state people who love city living but aren't quite ready for Detroit (or maybe Detroit isn't quite ready for them).



Maybe it is an asset. I think the effect you're talking about is marginal at best, though.

quote:

Lose Birmingham and the flight of corporations from southeast Michigan will only accellerate.



Isn't this a little bit of hyperbole? And how would we "lose" Birmingham? I don't want them to go anywhere. I just want them to accept their share of responsibility for their actions.

I always try to look at all sides of a matter, and I'm a peacemaker by nature. Just do a search on my posts. I certainly didn't deserve this.

quote:

I HATE living here.



And you think Im an example of polarization? Wrong.
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Swingline
Member
Username: Swingline

Post Number: 785
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 12:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

A student flighting around exploring "solutions" when the problem is not defined or researched is not doing something positive. Its playtime. And I refuse to think that playtime is "taking a positive approach to Detroit". God help the region if people do think that way.

Skulker, now you're just posing strawmen to knock down. Did your illustrious academic career and all the assignments you completed satisfy the serious and rigorous standard you would like to impose on Katelyn's course of study. Yeah, probably not. Detroit will survive just fine regardless of how a single young architecture student handles one Detroit-related assignment. Most posters who are targets for your penchant for "dumbass" labelling deserve the honor. (Myself included.) You make mistakes sometimes though.

Which reminds me. Your shot at Andres Duany in one of your earlier posts above kind of oversimplifies his views don't you think? Buy him a drink when you see him in Philadelphia next month and chat him up on some of his solutions for urban homeless issues. I think you'd find that he is able to think outside the Seaside box in which you want to confine him.
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Katelynrose
Member
Username: Katelynrose

Post Number: 19
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 4:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

is skulker an architect or something?
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Katelynrose
Member
Username: Katelynrose

Post Number: 20
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 4:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

no it would not leukemia will not "come to an end", but every little thing helps! i am very optimistic, apparently, skulker, you are not.
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Zephyrprocess
Member
Username: Zephyrprocess

Post Number: 338
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 4:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Skulker
quote:

Its kinda like thinking if you send little cancer boy Jeffrey an email so he gets in the Guiness Book of World Records, somehow leukemia will come to an end.


Whereas your position is kinda like complaining that the senior project of a microbiology major didn't cure leukemia.
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Jelk
Member
Username: Jelk

Post Number: 4338
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 4:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If a senior project of a microbiology major won't cure leukemia because it advocates curing leukemia with magic fairy dust then it deserves criticism.
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Titancub
Member
Username: Titancub

Post Number: 39
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 6:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Katelynrose, as i read this thread i'm amazed at the open hostility you've received as a total stranger on here. Out of town, young and wanting to learn and yet so many decide to smack you around and feel bad for getting out of bed today.

Damn frustrating and its really unfortunate you've had to go thru this when you showed up with good intentions.
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Zephyrprocess
Member
Username: Zephyrprocess

Post Number: 340
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 7:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Then it's not microbiology, Jelk.

Since we've already accused Katelynrose of Pride ("the height of arrogance") and Sloth ("Must have seemed like too much work or something"), I'm wondering if Jjaba will offer a prize for the first forumer who can pin the whole set of seven on her.
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Michigan
Member
Username: Michigan

Post Number: 41
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 7:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1st a question- Jelk, this is a little personal, but does your name refer to the ancient practice of jelking? I hope you don't get angry at me, I have been wondering and felt compelled to ask.

next a statement- Katlynrose I hope you do very well on your project. You seem to me to be a nice likable young person, I am assuming you are young AND a person. You have already learned a valuable lesson about applying your budding architectural skills to any problem. Specifically there are a lot of numbskulls in the world who will want to argue with you to make themselves feel smart and/or important and/or relevant. Don't let them stop you, but get used to it.

Next a compliment- Swingline, you seem to be a very levelheaded person, again with the assuming on my part. You obviously understand that KR is participating in an academic exercise, and you have shown her the requisite courtesy owed to a guest on this forum.

Finally a complaint- damn Skulker, get a life. If you sincerely think things in Michigan are that bad then you shouldn't have time to post at all. If you haven't realized it yet, let me be the first to inform you. None of the posts that you place on these boards accomplish anything tangible or change anything in Michigan or the real the world as a whole(except a few bytes and bits in a storage medium somewhere).

KR's post was one of the few non-"dumbass" posts I have seen on here. She needs information on Detroit, and she correctly assumed that many people posting on a forum named "DetroitYES!" would have knowledge about that city. Her mistake was in presuming that those same people would be interested in sharing their knowledge of Detroit. A rookie mistake, albeit an understandable one. As she gains experience I am sure she will realize that while many web based forums can be a gateway to useful knowledge, most of them are populated by angry, deluded, individuals who will rail at her in an attempt to vent their frustrating impotence.
KR, I can only hope that your visit to the actual city of Detroit was more enjoyable, impressive, and informative then your visit here.
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Oliverdouglas
Member
Username: Oliverdouglas

Post Number: 80
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 8:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Remember the young man from Kentucky who posted here a year or so ago? Boy, we smacked the shit outa him, didn't we? Haven't heard from him since - good work!
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Ordinary
Member
Username: Ordinary

Post Number: 173
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 9:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Llyn,
I am the homeless guy living in Birmingham. It pays 40k a year. They want the other municipalities to think that Birmingham has problems too.
I applied to be St. Clair Shores town drunk but there were too many other qualified individuals. Actually many of them were "over-qualified".
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Katelynrose
Member
Username: Katelynrose

Post Number: 21
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

you will be interested to hear that we just had a midterm crit and most proposals, each in different parts of the city, were given more negative than not feedback. negative in the sense that projects were not viable and these serious issues are "solveable" or even unhelpful through the means we were using. not that we were even thinking we could "save detroit" through architecture...no one was proposing that...

unfortunately thats what the critics thought...

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