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Exmotowner
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Username: Exmotowner

Post Number: 168
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 1:32 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This should get everyone going. All of you know, I haven't been home in 10 years. All I hear from people that have been there tell me that "Detroit looks like Beriut"! Of course you know nobody is going to say good things about it. Just wondering what you guys think about this statement and just how much is true? Will be home over Memorial day and cant wait to check it out myself. What do you guys think?
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 783
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 1:34 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Beirut rebuilds much more quickly. Maybe Detroit should ask the IDF to invade ...
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Gibran
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Username: Gibran

Post Number: 161
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 1:35 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

John Mcain says that the green zone in Bagdad is safe to walk ...Beruit was getting a much needed face lift until last summer...so I guess it is perception...
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2967
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 1:36 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Beirut is well on its way to recovery. And its population is around 1.6 million--nearly twice Detroit's.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 1168
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 1:39 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Milwaukee's got a neighborhood called Little Beirut, but it didn't get its title for a large arab population. This is LY's old neighborhood actually.

Every city has bad parts, Detroit is no different.
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Barnesfoto
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Username: Barnesfoto

Post Number: 3307
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 1:39 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When people say this, I always ask them about Beiruit...Usually, they pause, and explain that, well, they have not actually been to Beirut...
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 1169
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 1:41 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Beirut used to be the Paris of the Middle East, a playground for rich French settlers in Algeria. I assume Beirut is or was a beautiful city. Lot's of history and great architecture.
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 75
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 1:43 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why go to Detroit OR Beirut? Bagdad is safer.

Sincerely,

Tim Wahlberg
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 596
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 1:46 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Beirut used to be the Paris of the Middle East, a playground for rich French settlers in Algeria. I assume Beirut is or was a beautiful city. Lot's of history and great architecture."

And Detroit used to be the Paris of the America's... go figure.
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Gibran
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Username: Gibran

Post Number: 162
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 1:49 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually I would love to travel to Beirut and I am working on that now...It can be great city...For all that matters so will Detroit one day ...from the sound of many posts we are moving in the right direction....we just have to fix the schools and attract new families and jobs etc....
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Exmotowner
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Username: Exmotowner

Post Number: 169
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 2:05 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It does sound like you guys are bringing the city forward! I think Detroit, like N.O. will re-invent itself (probably a little smaller) but will still be a great city. I just get sick of hearing the Beruit line any time someone tells me about it. I bet Beruit was a beautiful city in its day! I did have the pleasure of doing some travel in the middle east, and it was defintely awsome! We have stuff that is old, they have stuff that is Ancient!
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Fareastsider
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Username: Fareastsider

Post Number: 324
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 2:38 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lets be honest many places are a complete wreck. This is an unfortunate fact of this city. Luckily I have learned over the years the good things of this city and all it has to offer. To bad many parts of the city look the way it does because I believe many people will never see the good of Detroit. If they did it could help revitalize our city which seems to be coming along. To bad it is a fact that to many part of this city look like a war zone. This statement doesnt surprise me. Lets hope that others learn what most of us here have a see the potential in the barren landscape of the rougher parts of town which is to much of the city.
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Llyn
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Username: Llyn

Post Number: 1789
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 3:27 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Exmotowner... have any of these people actually been to Detroit?

(Or, as Barnesfoto pointed out so very humorously, Beirut...)


PS Many parts of Detroit also do not look like a war zone. People exagerrate when it suits their fancy. Still watching re-runs of The Crow, I imagine.

(Message edited by llyn on April 06, 2007)
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Fareastsider
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Username: Fareastsider

Post Number: 325
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 4:17 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No, I worked doing land surveying in the city for 5 years in every corner. Yes there are certainly many nice clean productive areas but there are certainly to many dilapidated areas. I am not bashing the city it is just a obvious observation. sounds like some people put their head in the sand.
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Jiscodazz
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Username: Jiscodazz

Post Number: 13
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 4:35 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think Detroit looks more like New Orleans. Maybe we should apply for billions in man made disaster funding.
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 659
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 4:37 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I think Detroit looks more like New Orleans. Maybe we should apply for billions in man made disaster funding."

How about we have a terrible Chemical spill. That will get them to pay attention to us.
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Plymouthres
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Username: Plymouthres

Post Number: 43
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 4:58 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How about we all try something different for a change? Instead of slamming the things that are bad, how about we try to each find something good each day to report? I know for a fact that there are good happenings every day because I see it, but the news wouldn't be the news without the bad.

The 'hoods are a mess, but how much do we blame it on the INHABITANTS of the 'hood, rather than the City officials? Perhaps the people within should be held accountable for their apathy?

I know that whenever I see trash on the ground, I try to pick it up. Is it beneath me to police my own stuff. No, and it shouldn't be for them. All this entitlement shit has made people soft and un- accountable. It is truly sad!!!

Take it from someone who spent two years in many of the South and Central American countries-Panama, Grenada, Haiti, Guatemala, Belize, Costa Rica, El Salvador and most points in between, Detroit is not a war zone. I've seen those, and this is not that, guaranteed. So please stop the comparisons to bombed-out regions-they do not apply here and add, like cordwood, to the flames that make our region so undesirable.

How do I know it's not Beirut, either? I am Armenian, and many of my closest friends have been through there on their way to the freedom that our country offers. Many of them have said that in the 60's and 70's it was the most beautiful place that they had ever been! I believe them when they said that. However, after countless warring barrages in the 80's, 90's and 2000's, it has once again, in many parts, been decimated and turned to rubble.

I'm sorry, but until you have personally stood within a thousand meters of a shell from where an 88mm or 115mm cannon has landed, dismantled a roadside IED or endured a massive airstrike groundburst you have no idea what an explosion is. Detroit is, indeed, nothing like Beirut.

This, in my opinion, is about personal accountability. Unfortunately, most of the hope of this region is gone.

Remember the saying "when given lemons, make lemonade?" Let's all take this back before any more BS separates us from the good that can be done when we stick together. Sorry for the rant, just tired of the CONSTANT Detroit bashing.
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 367
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 5:07 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have hope, Plymouth. And I agree with you and Kilpatrick that it's time for people to start taking things into their own hands. Clean your shit up. Buy some paint and a paintbrush, its not THAT expensive. Monitor your neighborhood. Watch out for your neighbors in that they might watch out for you. See a neighbor trying to fix up their house? Why not go over and give him a hand. Maybe he'll help you sometime.

It's like Kwame said, nobody is coming to save you. DO SOMETHING. Cities are made out of people, not stadiums and skyscrapers.
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Bulletmagnet
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Username: Bulletmagnet

Post Number: 205
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 5:20 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Exmotowner, here are a few shots of what one may expect to see around Detroit these days:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com /206/448713992_5d0aa9441d_b.jp g
http://farm1.static.flickr.com /190/448713990_f2321bb9ff_b.jp g
http://farm1.static.flickr.com /230/448713986_cff5a3434f_b.jp g
http://farm1.static.flickr.com /184/448713982_3abe162cdf_b.jp g
http://farm1.static.flickr.com /236/448713976_158340bd9f_b.jp g
http://farm1.static.flickr.com /234/448713970_704998552c_b.jp g
http://farm1.static.flickr.com /208/445628054_2cd8904c27_b.jp g
For more, please check out Detroit Quick Pics 1 through 4 on this forum. For pretty pictures of Detroit just search Flickr.

(Message edited by Bulletmagnet on April 06, 2007)
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Gibran
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Username: Gibran

Post Number: 165
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 5:21 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

www.dicoverlebanon.com Checkout the views of this beautiful country....

Detroit has really so much potential and it seems that it is better in "some" ways now....Yes I know there are parts that tear our hearts out; generally that is our old neighborhoods and the areas that have been changed with urban blight. But, people still live in Detroit and we have to help empower them and the revitalization of it.

Every time I get there I try to spend dollars in the city: and take the drive to Belle Isle etc. I have always heald my memories of Detroit as good but realistic.
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Gibran
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Username: Gibran

Post Number: 166
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 5:24 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Bullet they look like fixer uppers...:0 Such a contrast, eh. But you have some ones that give me hope.... I wish I could ride with you on your journeys...
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5757
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 5:27 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Instead of bashing and blaming our leaders. We should be leaders to our city and communities. Talking about it is not going to save Detroit. Blaming black-folks, poor whites, profit greedy Arabs and ignoring Mexican and Hispanics is not the solution to save Detroit. I takes ALL of metro-Detroit, even up to 35 Mile Rd. to make Detroit a world class city. So please help KING KWAME, please help the city council and for the love of God please help the Detroit Public School Board for a better tomorrow for a 21st Century.

(Message edited by danny on April 07, 2007)
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 3914
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 5:44 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Damn Danny....

That is like the best post that I have ever seen you make...
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The_recycling_people
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Username: The_recycling_people

Post Number: 30
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 6:47 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just got back from new orleans. After trying to get someone to take me to the lower 9th ward (people rightly try to keep you from there), I rented a bike and guess what?

I found myself on the east side of detroit.

We have a serious issue before us, something that my little bike tour sadly explained to me...

Our decay and destruction is on par with new orleans. Decay and years of neglect have done as much damage as a hurricane, and there is no federal bailout, no 'rebuild detroit' charity network.

It is up to us and only us to make a difference, and that is a sobering and daunting task.
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 661
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 6:52 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Horrific Chemical Spill situation guys.
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The_recycling_people
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Username: The_recycling_people

Post Number: 31
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 7:07 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We should start a foundation to help those in need due to the tragedy of....

HURRICANE COLEMAN

Maybe that will get some fat pockets to throw some charity cash at our poor and shattered
region.
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 3915
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 7:11 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd prefer to help out the victims who had suffered the wrath of Typhoon Brooks...
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Plymouthres
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Username: Plymouthres

Post Number: 44
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 7:22 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Johnlodge, Gibran-

Thanx for the encouragement. It will take ALL of us though! The Kwame quote was exactly what I was thinking of!

Bull-

I could show you even worse than what you posted by a long shot! Have you ever been to the Delray area, particularly around the Westend/Amazon? Maybe Rademaker School area? How 'bout Ecorse, Rouge or Hamtramck, even Highland Park. There are areas of decay all around:by posting this crap you really make yourself no better than the media that so negatively portrays this city CONSTANTLY.

Yeah, there are a lot worse. But as I said, and I guess I would challenge you, go out and find some good! There is plenty of that out there, too. Somehow we have lost sight of this, though. Keep publishing your negativity, and I'll keep singing the praises of this great city! I invite you down to Fort Wayne any weekend this summer. I will be glad to show you some of the improvements that have been made by a few good volunteers!!

By the way, I could also show pics like that of almost ANY major city in this country. Savannah, Memphis, Philly, LA, DC and many, many more. I could look at it negatively, too, but I choose not to. I guess it is, therefore, really just a matter of choice!!

Take the Livernois/Michigan area. Still rife with all it's former problems, but clean and shiny new. Probably the best street I've driven on in the city in years (pretty smooth, I mean after the repave!!) This is not just my opinion, but many others here as well!

Do you even live in Detroit or did you even read what I had to say IN TOTAL? Or did you just think I was some Pollyanna-assed wussie that sees everything through my rose colored glasses? If posting those pics is your way of proving your point, you teeter on the verge of the new form of negativity that has swept this city for the last decade, causing it's ever downward spiral.

Until you can be part of the solution, you ARE the problem in my opinion. If you don't like it, go out and do something about it. They are cleaning up a park on April 22nd. Get out and help or stow it-I'm sick of the negative BS. If I want that, I'll just tune in to the local news. One of the reasons that I come here is for BOTH sides of the story-and I get just that, except when I see things like this. (Soapbox removed)

Danny-

Finally made some sense to me with your post! Like D_stylin said, nice points, and very well said!! By far your best post that I have read to date! Please keep these rational posts coming-you have very valid points and deserve to be heard!

To the rest of the forum, I urge you, too, to promote, not deride this city and it's good!! I know that there are many who believe this here, so let's see who's right, me or Bull.
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 371
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 7:43 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Plymouth, hey leave Hamtramck out of your list of the worst places! It's a nice little town!

But otherwise, right on. HEY, May is Motor City Makeover month. The city wants 65,000 volunteers to get together and clean up.

http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/kc c/motorcity.htm

Time to see if we have what it takes to get out there and make a difference OURSELVES, instead of waiting for someone to come save us. I think I'll post this on it's own thread too, just to make sure it gets some attention.
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Plymouthres
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Username: Plymouthres

Post Number: 46
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 7:47 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Johnlodge-

Sorry, But the glasses slipped abit... no offense, hey?

Good link! Now that's what I'm talking about!!!

How many will try?
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Bulletmagnet
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Username: Bulletmagnet

Post Number: 208
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 8:11 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know Iím pissing up a rope, Plymouthres, but I have addressed this criticism of my photos on this forum before. Sure, there are plenty of worse shots of Detroit I could post, and I'm sure you could too. But Iím not going to because I donít want to. Plenty of people post fantastic photos of Detroit here, so I donít have to. I am not a photographer (you know that) Iím a frigging Truck driver. I point the camera out the window and randomly shoot away. When I get home I down load them and post some of them here. I have no point in doing these posts. There is nothing profound about them. I hate most of them, and I hope you do too. What ever you see, you see. If you think it negative, thatís on you. If you think itís positive, thatís on you too. I think nothing, and you can quote me on that. I use a camera just to remember. Donít look if you donít like. Bitching only encourages me. Iím going to keep doing this until they are all gone, and the sooner the better by the sounds of you and your ilk. Coming soon: Detroit Quick Pics 5.
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Ordinary
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Username: Ordinary

Post Number: 171
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 8:22 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I personally liked Bulletmagnet's pictures. I don't know why Plymouthres is so upset. The reality is that much of Detroit looks terrible. And I have to admit a kind of morbid curiosity about the blight. It makes you wonder what it would take to turn things around. I've not been to a lot of other cities but it seems that Detroit's blight is spread throughout the city and not concentrated in one area. Am I hallucinating again?
But it's also true that a lot of the good things going on don't get any mention here or in the papers because they're just not glamorous enough. I posted something on another thread about the Thyssen Steel plant over there by McGraw and nobody said anything about it. That's the kind of thing this city needs. I think it's beautiful if you can call a factory beautiful.
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 719
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 8:25 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bullet posted what is true. And it is good to know what it is like around the city.
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Ffdfd
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Username: Ffdfd

Post Number: 59
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 8:36 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

There are areas of decay all around:by posting this crap you really make yourself no better than the media that so negatively portrays this city CONSTANTLY.



Plymouthres, I admire your enthusiasm. But, how much have you explored this site? You do realize that you are posting on the home to one of the biggest collections of blight photos on the web?
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Bulletmagnet
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Username: Bulletmagnet

Post Number: 211
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 9:29 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ffdfd, 'nuff said!
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 8855
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 9:33 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Bitching only encourages me. Iím going to keep doing this until they are all gone,



Nice. Should I expect to see you at any community events or is fixing the city for everyone else to do.

I think you guys are missing Plymouth's point. The issue isn't that there are many, many problem with the city. The issue is that people like to talk about them, glorify them, laugh about them but when it comes time to help those laughing, mocking, taking pictures, etc are suddenly too busy.
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Plymouthres
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Username: Plymouthres

Post Number: 47
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 10:03 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bull-

You're not pissing up a rope, you are posting the truth, as Scs100 said, I will plainly admit that. Perhaps in my zeal to protect what I happen to think was/is one of the better cities in the country, I did not take into account that you "think nothing" about what you are posting. I'm sorry if I offended you with my criticism of your pic postings, that was not my intent. I was, however, trying to elicit SOME THOUGHT, maybe provoke you into some action other than negativity. I think even you would admit that what you posted is not juxta-positioned in any way with the good that is occurring here. It's just not all bad. Your explaination says it all.

I do not understand someone who has a vested intrest in this area bashing it with the obvious. I was merely pointing out that your pictures are similar to what we all HATE about the local media and other Detroit naysayers-bad, not good.

By the way, I looked because I hoped that they were pics of something good for a change! Keep the postings up if you wish, but I see no benefit at all. I guess I just don't see the point. We could WASTE our energy all day doing this, as you so eloquently pointed out. I responded the way I did to offer a counter-point to yours, one of the things I enjoy about living in a free country and sites like this! As I also said, this is my opinion, which I believe I am entitled to.

Sorry if you feel I pissed in your cornflakes!

Ordinary-

I drive down Fort almost every day from Melvindale to Livernois. My parents ar buried in Woodmere and my grandparents, mother and dad all grew up in SW Detroit, my dad in Delray and mom at Vernor and Honora. I am upset because of what I see there, as I remember that area before the riots and afterward as a pretty diverse and contributing area of the city. If you read the SW gang thread, you will learn a little more about why I think that the negative must stop. My goal was not to refute the bad, but to promote the good. And no, I don't believe that you've eaten the "brown acid"!

Another good example of a "factory" that has perked-up the area is Arvin-Meritor on Fort. Awesome, state of the art manufacturing center rising out of the dirt of the area. Also adjacent to that is the Johnson Company, just around the corner, I believe on Waterman. Brand spanking new building, new business it appears to me. Also, my parents alma-matter, Southwestern High, is looking better than ever before!!! One block over though, look out!! And to see the beautiful architecture of the Fort and Green police station boarded-up and waiting for an appearance on the Fabulous Ruins website is almost nauseating to me.

Now if we could just do something about Mouroun's abandonment of his properties and the residual blight that they cause, we might just defeat what will certainly be the death toll of Fort Wayne and Delray and the rest of the city should he be allowed to build a second bridge across the river there. Your last statement gives ME hope!

Ffdfd-

Thanks for the admiration, but that is not what I was shooting for. I have explored this site with great enthusiasm for over six months, starting with the Fab Ruins of Detroit, when I began to do an in depth study of military star forts in the United States and their origins. I used to go to Fort Wayne when there were paid "re-enactors" there back in the early sixties. My Father, a former Army guy who was inducted into the military at Fort Wayne, tried to make sure that I understood the historical value of things, as he believed, like Winston Churchill did, that "those that fail to study history are destined to repeat it". In a effort to put a better "spin" so to speak on the D, I failed to communicate this clearly. My bad.

As for the desire to post the positive side of things, the Fort Wayne Coalition has asked Lowell if he would like to come out to the Fort, at his leisure, to take photos of the Fort as we try to bring it back from the same angles that the ones on Ruins were taken. Perhaps he will take us up on the offer, as the volunteers have made a difference and the pics, we believe, will show that!

In the end, we are all somewhat responsible for what we publish here, and I take possession of my statements fully. I knew that my posting would elicit these types of responses. Perhaps I've made you pissed enough to do something POSITIVE about it!!

Thanks for the bandwith, Lowell!
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Ffdfd
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Username: Ffdfd

Post Number: 60
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 10:15 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I understand Plymouth's point, and it's an admirable one. It would be great if more people pitched in to help make this a better city.

The thread topic, posted by someone who hasn't been here in a while, was about comparisons to Beirut. Bulletmagnet's photos seemed to relate to the topic. I didn't detect malice.

I like where Plymouth's heart is; I just find this site an ironic venue for complaining about photos of ruins.
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 722
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 10:15 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Plymouth:

While I certainly desire to see Fort Wayne saved, I would much rather see a bridge in Delray than next to the Ambassador. As many have pointed out already, a new Mouroun span will probably be the death of the Ambassador Bridge. Plus, I don't see how Windsor could handle the increase of truck traffic in that one spot. (FYI: The bridge in Delray would not be a Mouroun span. as far as I know). In my opinion, that new span is just plain ugly. Looks like the one in Boston near Bunker Hill. I also just hate Mouroun, period.

On the bright side of that, while it might be the death of Delray (what is left), it might actually help Fort Wayne. If it were to be saved, the city/federal government would probably have to spend some money to A) fix up the place and B) stabilize the foundations to support the vibrations from the bridge. Plus, the Canadians wouldn't have to worry about a large traffic flow into one of their cities (if I am correct). However, most of that is just my opinion. You can judge for yourself.
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Jt1
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Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 10:24 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

On the bright side of that, while it might be the death of Delray (what is left), it might actually help Fort Wayne. If it were to be saved, the city/federal government would probably have to spend some money to A) fix up the place and B) stabilize the foundations to support the vibrations from the bridge.



One would think but our reps in Washington seem more interested in protesting the war than doing anything for their constituents at home.
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Ffdfd
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Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 10:29 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good stuff Plymouth. It would be awesome to see Fort Wayne restored.
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Club_boss
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Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 10:46 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

B-e-i-r-u-t

Hereís another link, itís got some nice pics of downtown Beirut. My grandfather is from Tripoli.

http://www.downtownbeirut.com/ FaresJammal/solidere__downtown _beirut.htm

ďDetroit looks like bombed out BeruitĒ

"Detroit looks like Beriut"!

Bombed out or not, I donít think the two cities resemble each other at all.
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 11:29 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There's a Lebanese community center near Colson and Oakman in Dearborn that has spaghetti dinners and such, which I occasionally attend. Back some seven years ago, one of the servers there--a high school girl who goes back to Beirut from time to time told me that Beirut was then nicer than Detroit. I didn't believe her at first but have since changed my mind.

Beirut has indeed come a long way after its civil war (riots, perhaps) of the 1980s.

Back during the 1960s, the Playboy Investment Guide recommended investing for the short-term money market in Lebanese currency because their currency was similar in security to Switzerland's. I cannot really vouch for that, but that was some of the conventional wisdom of that time, some forty plus years ago.
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Craig
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Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 12:11 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't believe that a loose comparison of Detroit and Beirut is off-base. Both were once nice places that went on to be gutted of viability and beauty. Press coverage of both confirms the long fall from grace experienced by both.
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Pam
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Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 8:15 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Both were once nice places that went on to be gutted of viability and beauty.



Gutted? That word implies all was lost and nothing was left. Simply not true of Detroit.
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Scs100
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Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 10:06 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jt1, good point. Who knows?
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Club_boss
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Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 6:01 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Itís a clichť as well as a poor comparison.

The pictures are of urban blight that can be found in Baltimore, St. Louis, New Orleans and innumerable other cities in America; that does not equate, compare, or appear like certain areas of Lebanon that happen to be worn torn, if indeed that is the areas of the two cities that some believe ďlook alike.Ē

Certain neighborhoods in Detroit suffer from neglect and abandonment however Detroit doesnít have buildings or areas that have suffered hits from RPG rounds or aircraft missile attacks and are war torn.

Downtown Beirut is simply beautiful, however itís skyline does not resemble a midwestern city in America.

Lebanon is mostly a mountainous terrain, except for the narrow coastline and the Beqaa Valley.

Specifically what section of Beirut appears similar to a Detroit neighborhood?

The reference that the two cities are similar, in a most negative way, doesnít do either city justice.
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Corktownmark
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Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 8:20 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another comparison that has been missed is the causes of the destruction. The ultimate causes of the abandonment of Detroit which results in the vacant buildings in the photos might be racial fear. The cause of the destruction of Beirut is fear based on religion.
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Craig
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Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 8:28 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^I'll argue class warfare as strongly as racism. All of those whites who (you'd say) fled didn't rebuild a "white" Detroit. They left cramped 40-foot lots and set up on big rambling spreads with homes that dwarfed what was left behind. I think that the City had just become too congested and unlivable for most, and the riots ('67 & '74) and antagonism of increasingly militant "black" Detroit made it easier for the middle class to act upon their impulse for more room and amenities.

Lebanon and Beirut were cases of old-order tribalism: Christian, Muslim, Druze, with minor players thrown in from the side.

Both places ended up similarly wrecked, but for different reasons.
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Detroitbill
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Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 9:28 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Many of the neighborhoods are unfortunately not
good to look at by any means, however just getting back from my daily walk downtown,it always confuses me,, I go to alot of cities every month and the many of the downtown areas stand up very well to them, they are by no means blown up battle fields,,,nor is my own neighborhood (Lafayette Park)a blown up battle zones, when will some people start to recognize this ?. You go to where some of these critics live and sorry but its no paradise either by any means.
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Craig
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Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 10:57 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd like to say that I feel the basis for the Detroit-Beirut comparison is not a literal interpretation of history. The comparison is simply a matter of beholding two once vibrant and beautiful (relatively speaking) places that are only shells of their former selves. Claiming that these places -with their very different histories- are alike is a general observation that unfortunate clouds have descended. The solution to Detroit's problem isn't suitable for Beirut, nor is the opposite applicable. Good luck to all still living among the ruins.
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Eric_c
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Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 7:30 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where do you live Craig?
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Exmotowner
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Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 8:32 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey guys. Great discussion. Those pics of Beruit look great! Now when someone gives me that analagy I can tell them yea their looking pretty good huh! You seen Beruit lately! Yea guys. every city has its bad and good parts. Nashville certainly has some seedy areas. 6 more weeks and I'll see for myself what the D looks like! Im ready! Homesick as hell here!
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Rijobo
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Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 11:58 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

paint - brush & an I Pod
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Craig
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Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 9:26 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eric_c - where I am now is part of my "secret internet identity" so I won't share. As a Detroiter I lived on Stout, just north of Fenkell. Drive Fenkell between Evergreen and Fenkell and reflect upon the knowledge that all of the shells and now-vacant lots held stores and apartments within recent memory (I'm not old). Drive up and down the residential streets and see the swaths of grassland. I agree that Detroit and Beirut do't resemble on another in the literal sense, but the devastation and evidence of a long fall in Detroit is real and heartbreaking. I'm not hopeful that it can be reversed, but I will buy lottery tickets sometimes in hope of a miracle.
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Club_boss
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Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 9:59 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I found an area in downtown Beirut that resembles the downtown area of a city in America.


The Parliament Square Clock Tower in Nejmeh Square located in downtown Beirut.

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/1497202637062920873RcFNwX?vhost=good-times


This is downtown Indy @ Christmas time, referred to as Monument Circle.

http://www.bsu.edu/blogcaster/ ~jackie/wp-content/Christmas_o n_the_Circle.jpg

(Message edited by club boss on April 10, 2007)

(Message edited by club boss on April 10, 2007)
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Craig
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Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 12:29 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^Maybe, then, Detroit-Mogasishu (sp?) is the better comparison?
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Barnesfoto
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Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 12:31 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

great, tell us about your trip to Mogadishu...
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Craig
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Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 4:16 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Barnes - weigh right in and tell us what you think about the City. Have the courage to take a stand.

All - could we agree that Detroit has taken a pounding via neglect and abandonment? Could we also agree that some rebuilding has taken place? Since there is disagreement re: the relative state of Beirut can I propose a deviation for this thread? Compare Detroit to any battered city that you know (exception: Barnes... you have to have actually visited your comparison since you're busting on others for relying upon media sources) and speculate as to where we are relative to that city's redevelopment.

An example: as a kid I laid over in Leipzig, East Germany in the late 80s and saw war ruins and some rebuilding. In my mind Detroit today is a few years ahead of that beat-up town, but I cannot say if Detroit is moving past or falling behind.
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Detroit_stylin
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Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 4:22 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes craig tell us about your trip to Mogadishu seeing as I have been there and more than likely you are just talking out of your ass....
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Barnesfoto
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Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 4:38 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What I think of the city, dear Craig, can be summed up by the first line of a Dickens Novel...

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times"

I've lived in Mexico, and travelled in Asia,the Eastern Bloc and Cuba...No place that I've been is like Detroit, except there are some similarities with Camden NJ, in terms of wholesale abandonment.
I grew up near Brightmoor, (Though I never considered Stout to be in Brightmoor). Brightmoor was rough even before the crack epidemic. That was a long time ago.
It is hardly representative of the entire city.

I've lived on and off in Southwest Detroit, which has had the largest population and new business growth of any part of the city; SWD is also not representative of the entire city.
Let's skip the comparisons to places that few us have visited, shall we?
It makes us sound like blind men describing the elephant.
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Walkerpub
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Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 4:45 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lowell doesn't call this "The Fabulous Ruins" nor "A City Rising" without reason...

A Study in Contrasts















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Craig
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Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 6:45 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh the bitterness and defensiveness...

My experience yesterday... I drove past a place I needed to visit on East Jefferson and so I ducked up a residential street... or so I thought. ALL of the houses were gone. All. Grass grew over the phantom sidewalks. I'm aware that not a lot of grass grows in Mogadishu, Detroit_Styling, but did you see any areas so desolate and abandoned that grass COULD have overwhelmed what had been a neighborhood?

Don't kid yourself, guys, or hide behind world-traveler snobbery: this town is in tough shape.
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Jimaz
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Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 6:54 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Walkerpub, your first photo is haunting. It needs a story to go with it. It raises so many questions. Who is she? Where was she going? What are her memories?

I felt compelled to save it to disk. Bravo!
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Llyn
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Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 7:34 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Walkerpub... you said it best.
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Erikd
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Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 11:56 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

^I'll argue class warfare as strongly as racism. All of those whites who (you'd say) fled didn't rebuild a "white" Detroit. They left cramped 40-foot lots and set up on big rambling spreads with homes that dwarfed what was left behind. I think that the City had just become too congested and unlivable for most, and the riots ('67 & '74) and antagonism of increasingly militant "black" Detroit made it easier for the middle class to act upon their impulse for more room and amenities.



I find the statement that people "left cramped 40-foot lots and set up on big rambling spreads with homes that dwarfed what was left behind" to be quite specious.

The first wave of people leaving Detroit for the suburbs were not moving to big houses on large plots of land. They were moving into small houses, on small lots, in the inner suburbs. The older suburbs are filled with 900 sqft. houses on lots so small, you could cut the lawn with a pair of scissors.

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