Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 Barricaded gunman Previous Next
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Bulletmagnet
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Username: Bulletmagnet

Post Number: 226
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 11:11 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Breaking News: Barricaded gunman reported by Troy police. Situation developing. Location Long Lake and Crooks. 1 shot fired.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2667
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 11:16 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

*this is NOT why all those people in that other thread about moving out of Detroit moved to the suburbs. Scary stuff isn't supposed to happen there.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1991
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 11:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The way things are around here we'll probably be seeing more of this
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Tetsua
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Username: Tetsua

Post Number: 1163
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 11:27 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's reported that he shot 3 people.
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 733
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 11:31 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why? (retorical but sarcastic question)
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Plymouthres
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Username: Plymouthres

Post Number: 55
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 11:31 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm surprised this is the first time we're hearing of this, too. They just reported that a laid-off employee got in and shot his boss, AFTER the codes were changed on the doors! Wow! What is up with these folks?
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Plymouthres
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Username: Plymouthres

Post Number: 56
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 11:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The husband of a woman working in the office said "I met him at a Christmas party last year. He seemed like a normal guy". I guess his assessment was wrong!
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 876
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 11:37 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

my fried works in the building adjacent to that one...she just emailed me and said they are all on lock down...swat teams are still roaming through the halls looking for the guy
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2668
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 11:38 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's the sort of stuff everyone wants to think. It's a more severe version of the stories where someone has a meth lab or is making child porn, etc., out of some big new house in a subdivision. Everyone's normal there, right?
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Plymouthres
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Username: Plymouthres

Post Number: 57
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 11:48 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Happened at Gordon Advisors. The call-in witness says they had no warning, and they all ran to the center of the building and were hiding under desks!!! They hard him racking the shotgun!

I was afraid, in my last days with Ford, that this would happen there. So much for our caring for our fellow folks!!!
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Warriorfan
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Username: Warriorfan

Post Number: 677
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 11:49 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

YAY! An excuse to bash the suburbs! OMG, somebody committed a crime out there, that means Troy is just as dangerous as Detroit! Crime is the same everywhere, this is the proof! Sure Troy's murder rate last years was 1.2 per 100,000 people while Detroit's was ~45 per 100,000, but that is irrelevant! Stupid suburbanites, that's what you get for wanting better schools, low crime, and responsive city services! These racists got what was coming to them, they should have stayed in Detroit.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1992
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 11:54 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

knock it off - this isn't a city/suburb thing

it's a shitty economy thing

(Message edited by lilpup on April 09, 2007)
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Plymouthres
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Username: Plymouthres

Post Number: 58
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 11:54 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow, warriorfan, what a broad brush you paint us suburbanites with!! "Racist, stupid suburbanites".

Hopefully, your being sarcastic here. If not, your words prove your racism-and lack of any knowledge of the way it really is. Crime happens everywhere, just less where people make less stupid assertions. Try contributing rather than being an a$$hat! People have been hurt here, it's never good when that happens, anywhere!!
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 418
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 11:55 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry Mackinaw, your idiocy exposed:

Total murders in Troy 1999 thru 2005: 4
Total murders in Detroit 1999 thru 2005: 2713
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 877
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 11:56 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yeah it's fucked up that people here take any opportunity to bash the suburbs...

I plan to stay away from this place once Quicken announces their move to Detroit, just to avoid all the Livonia-taunting that's going to take place by posters who are too stupid to realize that many of us in Livonia are also rooting for Quicken to move downtown...
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Cambrian
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Username: Cambrian

Post Number: 930
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 11:56 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Huh! Whaddya mean we can't lay off who we want when we want!!?!!?
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1993
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 11:58 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well, you can, but there might be consequences
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Amy_p
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Username: Amy_p

Post Number: 773
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 12:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It sounds like the receptionist was killed, two others shot, and the gunman's name 'Anthony.' Looking for a Silver 2007 Ford Fusion.
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Superduperman
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Username: Superduperman

Post Number: 252
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 12:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He bought a new car?
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 734
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 12:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"knock it off - this isn't a city/suburb thing

it's a shitty economy thing"

No, this is only a situation of ignorance and wrong doing.
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Cambrian
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Username: Cambrian

Post Number: 931
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 12:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The receptionist? In all seriousness, that's F-Up. she didn't fire anyone.
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Bulletmagnet
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Username: Bulletmagnet

Post Number: 229
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 12:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Monitor 155.595 MHz FM to listen live.
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Amy_p
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Username: Amy_p

Post Number: 774
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 12:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Regarding the receptionist, the company had changed the security code (swipe cards), so she was maybe the only way in for him. Sounds like he shot "the big boss" and another lady.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1994
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 12:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"No, this is only a situation of ignorance and wrong doing."

only in a perfect world comprised entirely of stable people

hope you're not in HR Urbanize
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Mind_field
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Username: Mind_field

Post Number: 703
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 12:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ugh....so f*cking predictable.

(Message edited by mind field on April 09, 2007)
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Amy_p
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Username: Amy_p

Post Number: 775
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 12:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anthony LaCalamita from Troy, 38 years old, 2007 Silver Ford Fusion, plate BEY0843.
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 736
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 12:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For non-stop coverage, turn to any of the 3 stations. Typical media.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1995
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 12:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

but possibly helpful in this case because the guy was apparently witnessed getting into the Fusion they're looking for, so he's on the loose
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 737
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 12:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not saying they aren't helpful, but 1/2 an hour of non-stop coverage gets really annoying.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5773
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 12:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

CRIME HAPPENS EVERYWHERE! even the suburbs. The best you all can do is control it.
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Lvnthed
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Username: Lvnthed

Post Number: 97
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 12:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

3 shot in Detroit-Area Office Building, Per Comcast

Just another case of unbiased reporting! Right

Damn, we can't win for nothing!!
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2244
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 12:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hopefully this piece of shit kills himself........mich needs the death penalty
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Cinderpath
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Username: Cinderpath

Post Number: 68
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 12:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is really, really sad. What is more sad is the ignorance of pointing out, and making a non-issue about where it happened. Who cares where it took place? For God sake, there are probably kids that lost a parent today, and people that lost a family member. If he got "The Big Boss", and it is a smaller firm, it might easily go under, and lots of people will loose their livelihood.

This forum has really turned into an ugly place, filled with angry people. I don't feel the need to come here anymore.
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11470
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 12:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is what happens when you allow TWO Hooters restaurants to open in your community!
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Alchemist5
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Username: Alchemist5

Post Number: 3
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 12:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This really is a tragedy. Things are bad enough for all of Metro Detroit right now. The last things we really needed was this kind of national publicity.
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 419
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 12:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cinderpath -

You are right, but don't pack it in. People vent their frustrations on here sometimes in an inappropriate manner, myself included.

There are some who use virtually every thread to bash the suburbs and that is unfortunate. I have taken the bait a few times and lashed back as a proud member of the North Oakland County Chapter of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy.

I was actually going to post something far more sarcastic than this but your last post stopped me cold, so your presence is valuable.
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 739
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 12:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Update: The car has been found near Saginaw. No word if he is near it.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1996
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 12:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

vehicle found in northern Genessee County / Saginaw area, no info yet on whether suspect was with vehicle
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Cambrian
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Username: Cambrian

Post Number: 932
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 12:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is a problem as when you give people no other recourse....you keep taking shit away from people, eventually they'll have nothing left to lose. That's why I strongly oppose these right to work right to fire laws.
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Warriorfan
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Username: Warriorfan

Post Number: 678
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 1:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Wow, warriorfan, what a broad brush you paint us suburbanites with!! "Racist, stupid suburbanites".

Hopefully, your being sarcastic here. If not, your words prove your racism-and lack of any knowledge of the way it really is. Crime happens everywhere, just less where people make less stupid assertions. Try contributing rather than being an a$$hat! People have been hurt here, it's never good when that happens, anywhere!!



I was being sarcastic, in reply to Mackinaw's posts. There is a belief among many in this forum that crime in the suburbs is no different from crime in Detroit and they can't comprehend why anyone would want to live in the suburbs other than for racist reasons.

(Message edited by warriorfan on April 09, 2007)
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 740
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 1:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They caught him.
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2245
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 1:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Too bad they didn't shoot him
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Alchemist5
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Username: Alchemist5

Post Number: 4
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 1:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

More tax dollars down the drain, I don't really like violence, but the death penalty could make people think twice. Then we could deal with this a$$hole and the others that like to kill their wives with a similar fate.
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Barnesfoto
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Username: Barnesfoto

Post Number: 3323
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 1:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The beserk gunman of the week, again....
It seems that our society mass-produces psychosis.
This week it's Troy's turn, next week, perhaps in Plano, Texas, or outside of Atlanta or maybe Columbus, Ohio...
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2989
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 1:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

This is a problem as when you give people no other recourse....you keep taking shit away from people, eventually they'll have nothing left to lose. That's why I strongly oppose these right to work right to fire laws.


This is got to be one of the silliest excuses for never firing anyone. Socialist types would really go for this piece of nonsense and foolishness...

Moderator: please place this and its reference post under the UAW ignorance thread...
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Plymouthres
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Username: Plymouthres

Post Number: 60
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 1:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Barnes-

You are so right-this happens and will continue to happen EVERYWHERE as long as people think they have somehow "earned" the right to kill others when things go wrong for THEM! If it's so bad, they should just off themselves!
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Flybydon
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Username: Flybydon

Post Number: 106
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 1:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1:00 PM

Gunman captured north bound Interstate 75 near Saginaw.
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Kingofdetroit
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Username: Kingofdetroit

Post Number: 6
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 1:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I used to work with him downtown at HRBFA. He seemed ok~... :-O
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Cambrian
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Username: Cambrian

Post Number: 933
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 1:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LY Lots of people deserve to get fired, and this bloke may have been so deserving. However you care to speculate how many people get fired wrongly and cannot do a damn thing about it because the silly capitalist right wring power structure prefers to put the power in the hands of those with the most money? Or maybe I have it wrong and people that are fired unjustly have many avenues of recourse. I'm sure you can point out lots of ways some one these days can recover lost wages and get thier jobs re-instated.
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 420
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 1:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cambrian -

You seem to be implying that the "right to work" and "right to fire" laws are the cause for this tragedy. So the answer is once you hire someone, you could never fire them for any reason?

I can think of nothing that would discourage hiring more than that, which would of course cause unemployment to skyrocket even further. We have no right to work or right to fire laws within union shops in this state, yet they have lost 10's of thousands of jobs.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1997
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 1:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For all anybody knows the guy could have been fired for seeking other work so he could get out of an abusive work situation. Managerial abuse DOES happen, and this isn't a job market where one can just quit then go get another job.
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Cambrian
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Username: Cambrian

Post Number: 934
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 1:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

PG My thought is if people that are fired have recourse then maybe they will not be so quick to erupt in a murderous rage. You yourself said you've had jobs that req'd you to sign "Employee at will" papers. What recourses did you have when discharged?
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Jfre66_77
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Username: Jfre66_77

Post Number: 66
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 1:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are you actually suggesting that if this guy was in an abusive work situation, and then was fired, that he is justified in gunning down 3 people?
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you've never had an immediate family member or close friend that was murdered.

(Message edited by Jfre66_77 on April 09, 2007)
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Bratt
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Username: Bratt

Post Number: 527
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 1:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Something crazy is going on.

You can't break up with your boyfriend, or he just might shoot you.

You can't lay anybody off or fire them, cuz they just might shoot you.

You can't cut anybody off while driving, cuz they just might shoot you.

Damn, we've got our own terrorists right her in our own back yard.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1998
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 2:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No one is justifying what he did, just showing how it can come about. A lot of people are already stressed in this area. It won't take much more to push some over the edge.
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 421
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 2:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cambrian -
My recourse has been to get another job, usually a better one. I don't want to work at a company where I am not wanted. Usually there are signs that things are going downhill at your job if you look for them, whether it is a business problem or a personality conflict and lord knows I have experienced both, sometimes simultaneously! You have to be planning your next move regardless if you think your job is secure or not.

If you keep your skills fresh in a job category that is in demand, there is no reason to kill your boss. That said, I do recognize that layoffs sometimes happen for reasons that are not based on sound business practices.

In my business, I am competing against Asian and Indian labor both here and abroad that will work for a lower rate. It is becoming evident however that this has not produced the free lunch that corporations were looking for as the work product of these people is inferior and many lack proper communication skills.

Most of us have experienced the frustration of calling customer support for anything and trying to resolve an issue with someone in India, this issue alone has hurt companies like Dell badly. I am not unsympathetic to the problem but in the end I would rather know that my future is in my hands, not a union or the government.
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Hunchentoot
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Username: Hunchentoot

Post Number: 39
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 2:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a helpful graphic posted by the AP:

http://www.unibrows.com/images /shootings.png

Note the attention to detail.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1999
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 2:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

PG, unless you're self-employed, your future is in the hands of those who have more money than you, and there's not a whole lot you can do about it. You can take all the classes you want, kiss ass all you want, but the bottom line is, without a union or sufficient government regulation, you have no control, nor do you have any recourse in every bad situation.
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Kahnman
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Username: Kahnman

Post Number: 28
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 2:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm surprised they didn't show the world as a globe with the D shown as a big red ball the size of Michigan...somebody hand me that huge paintbrush, please?
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 744
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 2:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To make matters worse, this is now the top story on CNN. Must be a slow day.
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Spaceboykelly
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Username: Spaceboykelly

Post Number: 221
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 2:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Worst thread ever.
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 422
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 2:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lilpup -

The facts do not reflect to your assertions. I haven't been out of work since the Carter years and I have never been in a union. On the other hand, thousands of union members have lost their jobs in that time.

It is true that I can't control if the owner of my company decides to lay off employees, but I do control how it affects ME. Putting your faith in government and unions has not proven to be a smart thing to do.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 600
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 2:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yawn.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 2000
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 2:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

On the other hand, thousands of union members have lost their jobs in that time.



and so have many, many, many more thousands in the non-union private sector - but that's not the real issue

everybody has a breaking point, business (could generalize to US society at large) often isn't sensitive to employees because the money matters more, for whatever reason this guy got pushed too far
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Plymouthres
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Username: Plymouthres

Post Number: 63
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 2:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lilpup-

There is no good reason-just couldn't control himself. What a shame for those folks he has killed or maimed with his selfish act!!
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Burnsie
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Username: Burnsie

Post Number: 935
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 2:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For those who are upset that the media references "Detroit" too much with this shooting, give me a break. 99% of people in the US have never heard of Troy, so the media mentions Detroit so people can get a clue where this happened. It would be the same if the shooting happened in a suburb of Atlanta.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 2001
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 2:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

no 'good' reason is not the same as 'no reason'
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 746
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 2:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not upset, I'm just surprised that this was the top story for CNN. Kind of odd that 1 person dying in Troy makes the front page. I don't care if they mention Detroit to give a relative location.
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Plymouthres
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Username: Plymouthres

Post Number: 64
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 3:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lilpup-

Point taken.I guess that what I meant was there is never a "plausible" reason for this kind of abhorrent behavior! It just gets worse and worse. I think you will agree that affecting others with your "behavior" is never acceptable, despite how bad it is for you.
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Mackinaw
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Post Number: 2671
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 3:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bratt, that was a great post. This is a trigger-happy, gun-laden country where too many people lack respect for life. That is the real issue. It's about a guy whose head is up his ass and he can't think clearly, so he grabs his gun, because that will fix everything.
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Perfectgentleman
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Post Number: 423
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 3:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lilpup - You made unions the issue when you state that somehow they can guarantee job security which is clearly not the case.

I must also dispute your assertion that "far more" jobs have been lost in the non-union sector unless you can back that up with factual data. Especially in terms of percentage of total workers in each segment.

A quick read of the data I have viewed indicates most jobs have been lost in the manufacturing sector in Michigan in the last year, which is heavily unionized, although not 100%.

Michigan remains one of the states that reflects your agenda most as compared to others, yet we are in a free fall economically. Your ideas would go over much better in the 1930's or maybe in Europe.
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Plymouthres
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Username: Plymouthres

Post Number: 66
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 3:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Perfect-

Be careful here, as I fear you may be incorrect. When I took the buyout at Ford in February, we had 860+ folks in our department. When I got the "thanks for working at Ford" letter, there were 568 people on the distribution list! All were non-union, salaried-hourly people! I was in one of about 23 or so departments that did the same thing. Gm did the same for three years before I left Ford: Chrysler the same and now they are doing it again. All non-union white-collared workers. We really won't be able to tell who or how is affected, and in what numbers, as it is happening very slowly and not all at one time, so it is very deceiving!
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Citylover
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 3:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Scs100 you suffer from the rather childish affliction of, if it has not happened to me it has not happened yet. Thus your taking offense at the thorough news coverage_ btw because of the extensive news coverage other workers in that bldg took it upon themselves( they had no word from anyone including authorities)to barricade their particular offices.
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Perfectgentleman
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Post Number: 424
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 3:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Plymouthres -

I am not saying that Barnes is wrong necessarily, I am saying that there needs to be data to support the assumption. I could also argue that as many of the white collar jobs are related to supporting the manufacturing process, the union issue is indirectly responsible for those losses as well.

The fact is that the union mentality in the manufacturing sector and state government is harming us all and is a large part of the reason we are not attracting new business to this state. So in the quest for "job security" we are getting everything but that.
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Perfectgentleman
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 3:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Plymouthres -

You are also looking at Ford only, the true indicator would be the PERCENTAGE of jobs lost in each category state-wide or country-wide.

For example, imagine a small company with 12 employees. If you have 10 jobs in the non-union side and 2 jobs in the union side, and both segments lose 2 jobs, who is more secure? This is the proper way to analyze it and I don't think anyone here can know the actual numbers.
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Cambrian
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Username: Cambrian

Post Number: 936
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 4:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Numerous suppliers as well as the Automotives themselves have slashed jobs around here, and, no they were not all hourly type positions, most suppliers were over 80% White Collar, Engineers, Designers, and support staff. This is common knowledge, there should be no need for "proof".
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Plymouthres
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Post Number: 69
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 4:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Perfect-

I tried to provide what I felt was first hand knowledge(data) to you in the form of my experience and to support Barnes's opinion a bit. This is a thread about the death of one or possibly more people who were shot by a disgruntled, former employee-not on "union mentality" and the other stuff you mentioned. If we want to continue this discussion in that direction, lets do it on a new thread. I'll be glad to give you more credible info there.

Scs100-

I agree that this goes way beyond "one person dying in Troy" and may be the beginning of a very alarming "trend" around here as more people find themselves laid-off/terminated!
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Granmontrules
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Post Number: 63
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 4:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is all going to hell in the burbs! I am staying south of 8 Mile - Macomb and Oakland are dangerous places these days!
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Plymouthres
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Post Number: 70
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 4:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just heard that he KILLED the receptionist. What a shame, as I doubt that she fired him. On the other hand, there must have been a reason they let him go-after all it was tax time and the place was working all hours just to keep up( quoted from the husband they interviewed). If he had something going for him, they may not have let him go? Who knows why people really do the things they do! They(the company)were recently named 100 best companies to work for according to news four.
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Perfectgentleman
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Post Number: 426
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 4:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cambrian -

More unsubstantiated claims. There is always a need for proof if you are a thinking, rational person. Actual facts are nothing to fear, which ever way they come out.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT EVEN IF THE WHITE COLLAR FOLKS WERE IN A UNION IT WOULDN'T MATTER, THEY WOULD BE GONE ANYWAY!

If your company is losing its ass, you will be canned eventually whether you are in a union or not, they key is preventing that from happening in the first place. Jobs don't come from unions, they come from prosperous companies.
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Plymouthres
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 4:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Perfect-

Start a new Thread as this is hijacking in the worst way. I will provide further proof there.

By the way, I have 27 years of personal experience at this so I believe that I can provide you all the links/facts that I need to. I can appreciate your opinion, but, as you said, there are no facts(links) that I've sen you post, either, so lighten-up. It is just a discussion and people are entitled to their opinions, too.
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Perfectgentleman
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 4:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Plymouthres -

When I have the facts I provide them, which is 90% of the time. When I don't I say so and don't make baseless claims like others do. I am open to someone proving me wrong but I will not accept "common knowledge" and individual anecdotes based on a small sampling.

All I have said here is that the notion that union jobs are somehow more secure in the long term may not be correct. So, I will start a new thread entitled "Unions and the future of Michigan, pro and con."
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Plymouthres
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 4:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Perfect-

Thanks. I'll try to keep up with you there. This topic is interesting, and I look forward to your opinion!

Stay tuned!
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Eric_w
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Username: Eric_w

Post Number: 92
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 5:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All things aside that have been mentioned here, I find it very puzzling that anyone would seek violence as the answer. I have been fired before and had bosses I really could not stand
(even hated ) but I'd never ever do them harm because they :
1. Weren't worth it.
2. I rather live well and show them I could succeed .
One of my current supervisors is an A-1 ass- she's so stupid it's unbelievable. I totally dislike her but she's not worth a bullet. No way.
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Warriorfan
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Username: Warriorfan

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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 5:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you guys really think that socialist employment laws will make things better, I suggest you take a look at France. It's almost impossible to fire people over there. Sounds good, right? Except for the fact that because federal law makes it almost impossible to fire someone (even when profits go down and the business needs to shed workers), businesses in France are reluctant to hire new people. They've got double-digit unemployment, their unemployment rate is MORE THAN DOUBLE what ours is. Fuck, there were nationwide riots over the lack of jobs because of the strict socialist laws that hinder job growth and creation of new businesses. No one wants to do business in France because of the strict employment laws.

So whatever you want to say about our evil capitalist work structure, it's proven to be a lot better than this socialist shit so many of you seem to be advocating. You want job "entitlements" and guaranteed employment? Then say hello to double-digit unemployment rates nationwide, because they go hand in hand. Employers will simply stop hiring extra people if they are forced to employ them for life. If you guys want to live in a worker's paradise, head to France, but good luck finding a job over there.
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Cambrian
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 5:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Japan has similar employment philosophies as France, and no one is turning tail and running from them. France's issue appears to be they let more people in to thier country then were available jobs waiting for them.

(Message edited by cambrian on April 09, 2007)
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 2003
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 5:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

But Eric_W, you don't feel trapped, do you?
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Eric_w
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Post Number: 93
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 6:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"But Eric_W, you don't feel trapped, do you?"
Lilpup- Sometimes I do but never enough to kill some scummy boss.

I'll admit that my dislike even hatred has been quite strong-however I haven't wanted to kill them. I'll admit this- I wouldn't walk across the street to spit on a couple if they were on fire. Last place I was let go I despised the operations manager-he was as low as dog crap.When I got my new job I sent an email to the company stating I was extremely happy with my new position and thanked them for letting me go since it gave time to seek a new career. I got a ton of replies from former co-workers that really it frosted him and the other brass there. Even better I saw one of the company VP's when I was having dinner once. He asked me how things were going-my reply: "Much better than when I worked for you!!!" He tried to send over a drink for my wife & I. I sent them back.
" The best revenge is living well "
Jerry Seinfeld
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Ffdfd
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Username: Ffdfd

Post Number: 64
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 7:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Yawn.



This was a worthwhile post. Sorry if that receptionist's death bores you.
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Eric_w
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Username: Eric_w

Post Number: 95
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 9:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Free Press listed a number of workplace shootings in the Metro area over the last decade or so- quite a number
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Blueidone
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Username: Blueidone

Post Number: 31
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 9:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have friends in that office. A horrific ordeal for them today. Can we just pray for the dead and injured and be thankful that the guy was caught?
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Harsensis
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Username: Harsensis

Post Number: 242
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 10:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought the same thing, that with tax season in full swing, there must be something more to the story about why he was let go. But at this point I know some of the tax companies have switched to doing extentions to make sure that their clients are covered.
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Cambrian
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Username: Cambrian

Post Number: 940
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 10:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Should the shooter get life w/o parole or the death penalty if we had it? YES

Should the company disclose all the paper work saying why they fired him? YES Again!
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Psip
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Username: Psip

Post Number: 1768
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 10:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nov. 14, 1991
WORKPLACE: Royal Oak Post Office.
WHO: Thomas McIlvane.
VICTIM: Four dead; four wounded.
OUTCOME: McIlvane committed suicide.

hard to believe that was 16 years ago.

I feel awful for the friends and family of the grand mother dieing at the hands of a lunatic.

Thank you guys for taking the workers/company debate elsewhere.

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