Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 No air traffic today? Previous Next
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Qweek
Member
Username: Qweek

Post Number: 212
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 10:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I haven't seen or heard one airplane in the sky today, is it too windy or what? I checked metros site, 15 minute delays? Anyone know what's up?
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Rjlj
Member
Username: Rjlj

Post Number: 312
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 10:32 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How is this related to Detroit?
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Qweek
Member
Username: Qweek

Post Number: 213
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 10:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit Metro Airport, geez, it's a simple question.
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Bvos
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Username: Bvos

Post Number: 2146
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 10:39 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I saw plenty of planes landing today at Metro on my drive in to work.
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Qweek
Member
Username: Qweek

Post Number: 214
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 10:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good, thanks.
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Chris_rohn
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Username: Chris_rohn

Post Number: 290
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 11:52 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I didn't notice any streams in the forest today. The map I looked at says there are streams but I didn't see any. Is the map wrong? Are there really streams in the forest?
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Mind_field
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Username: Mind_field

Post Number: 706
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 11:55 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LMAO.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 8920
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 12:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

NOT laughing, it was a simple question based upon observation.

Why be an asshole about it?
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Dds
Member
Username: Dds

Post Number: 207
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 1:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Because in the time you take in posting the question, and waiting for a response, you could probably check Metro Airport's site, plus the FAA's site. Even the Weather Channel.

(Message edited by dds on April 13, 2007)
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Qweek
Member
Username: Qweek

Post Number: 215
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 1:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Read the first post smart ass, I did check the airport. Maybe I'm concerned about an incoming flight later being delayed. The airport was posting 15 to 18 minute delays, I was just wondering if anyone with actual "knowledge" of the air traffic would chime in with an answer not a bunch of mean twits and their cocky, fucking attitudes. Have a nice fucking day, assholes.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 781
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 1:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actual knowledge of the air traffic! Do the flight control people at DTW post on forums during their job too?
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Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 790
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 1:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

TATU: De plane, boss! De plane!
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Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 424
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 2:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Qweek, please don't curse.
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Mbr
Member
Username: Mbr

Post Number: 133
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 2:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is the plane you are expecting coming from Saudi Arabia, if so you may have a problem:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18 091892/
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Ptero
Member
Username: Ptero

Post Number: 111
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 2:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I didn't notice any streams in the forest today. The map I looked at says there are streams but I didn't see any. Is the map wrong? Are there really streams in the forest?


Only if the bear shits...






in them.
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Qweek
Member
Username: Qweek

Post Number: 216
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 2:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Actual knowledge of the air traffic! Do the flight control people at DTW post on forums during their job too?"

Never said I was looking for flight control individuals did I? Anyway, how do you know who reads and posts here? Someone who works at the airport or around the airport might check the site out. Ask a simple question and look out, mean mother f@$kers attack.
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Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon

Post Number: 8926
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 2:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

But where would we get such riveting conversation, and the obvious opportunity to make someone feel bad?!

I always forget what sport people take in pointing out other's oddities, mistakes, idiosyncracies, and shortcomings.


I try to only do THAT with Karl.
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Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon

Post Number: 8927
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 2:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Qweek,

Please don't curse, some of us understand 'comic balloon'.

heh
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Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 791
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 2:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One thought: I've heard that every once in a while, Metro switches approaches. This may have some noticable effect on air traffic in areas of the metroplex.
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Lakesuperior
Member
Username: Lakesuperior

Post Number: 176
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 2:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

see! how would i have ever learned that an airport sometimes switches approaches for incoming flights, had qweek not asked his/her question!

people need to chill...
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Qweek
Member
Username: Qweek

Post Number: 217
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 3:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Detroitnerd, a real answer to a simple question.

Gannon,

You are a true gentleman, someday I'll buy you a pint. Thanks!
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Jimaz
Member
Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 1889
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 3:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

... every once in a while, Metro switches approaches ...

It's windy today too. It might be related to crosswinds.
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Dtwflyer
Member
Username: Dtwflyer

Post Number: 51
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 3:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You are lucky that you have someone on this board who has knowledge of airline & airport operations. So I'll give you a little bit of insight:

Nothing unusual going on today out at DTW to report. Aircraft are arriving from the north and departing to the south. Depending on your location in the metro area and the arrival and departure routes being used, you may see a lot of aircraft or you may see none at all. The amount of air traffic will also vary throughout the day. Northwest, who operates a hub have their flights scheduled around connecting banks. Where a lot of flights will arrive at the same time, allowing people to make connections, then a bunch of flights will all leave around the same time. For example, the heaviest arrival times into DTW are 5:30am (overnight flights from the West Coast), 7:30-8:30am, 9:30-10am, 11-11:30am, 1:30-2pm, 3:30-4pm, 5:00-6pm, 7:30-8:30pm, 11:30pm-Midnight.

The runway direction and cooresponding arrival and departure routes is determined by the winds. Aircraft need to takeoff and land going into the wind as much as possible. DTW has 4 main runways that run parallel to each other from southwest to northeast. There are also two east-west runways that are used when there are very strong west winds (like last week when the big cold front went through).

When there are light wind, or they are out of the south, or southwest, aircraft takeoff on a southerly route, and head out over Monroe, Flat Rock, Brownstown, and/or turn toward Toledo or Ann Arbor. Arriving aircraft come from the north, coming in over Oakland County - Southfield, Detroit, & Dearborn. This is the most often used configuration (about 70% of the time) due to prevaling winds, and limits the noise over highly populated areas. Aircraft are much louder on takeoff since the engines are at full power, hence why they prefer to have them climb out over the lesser populated areas of southern Wayne County.

If the winds are out of the north/northwest/northeast, aircraft will take off to the north, and be arriving from the south. This configuration is what is used about 25% of the time. Aircraft approach from over Lake Erie, Monroe, & Toledo. Aircraft taking off head north over Dearborn, Livonia, with those heading east, told to fly over I-94 to limit noise.

There are departure routes that change slightly for each aircraft to avoid wake turbulence, spread out the noise footprint. For arrivals, the amount of aircraft that are in the approach will determine how far out they have to line up to land. Plus the distance between aircraft increase with clouds, high winds, precipitation, and when visibility is reduced.

I can post some maps to illustrate the primary routes a little later.
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Carolcb
Member
Username: Carolcb

Post Number: 387
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 3:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have not read this complete discourse, but I think everyone tends to be less friendly on Fridays, just an observation.

Peace, love, dove, have a good weekend!
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Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 792
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 3:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DTW flyer: Thanks for the detailed info. It's one of those things I'd vaguely heard about, but didn't know for sure.
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Lowell
Board Administrator
Username: Lowell

Post Number: 3791
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 4:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hang in there Qweek. We're pulling for you. the towel snappers landed a couple on you but you win because your earnest question has led to information gold for us with dtwflyer's awesome post.

Over time I have flown most of those take off and landing routes as well as stackings. It is nice to hear it put all together.
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Atl_runner
Member
Username: Atl_runner

Post Number: 1961
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 4:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Whenever I fly in to Detroit via NWA or Delta, I usually land coming in from the north.. circle up around 696, orchard lake rd area, then head on in to land.. One time, there were sustained winds of 40+ mph coming in from the west and there was only one landing runway open.. we came in from the east, seemingly cleavland, and had the roughest landing I ever remember. I was sure we were not going to make it.. this post just helped confirm what I thought regarding the situation.
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Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 618
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 5:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do they change takeoff/landing direction according to the time of day as well (i.e. take off/land away from sunlight)?
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The_rock
Member
Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1702
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 5:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You have handled yourself well, Qweek. You would make a fine trial lawyer. I thought I might have to come to your defense ( as I did for LMichigan on the "Somerset Apts on Jefferson" thread), but such is not the case.
We have a first officer for NWA on the Forum (Mikem)who might chime in on this thread, but he may be out there flying to who knows where, and has not had the opportunity yet. He always makes "soft" landings, which is quite remarkable as he often has his head, arm and camera hanging out the window taking fine aerial shots of the City.
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Qweek
Member
Username: Qweek

Post Number: 218
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 6:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I see how this works, offer free beer and suddenly everyone wants to play nice! It looks like my "I'd buy that person a beer" list has grown. You guys have a nice weekend, and thanks for all the info!
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Plymouthres
Member
Username: Plymouthres

Post Number: 97
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 9:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mikem or Dtwflyer-

Could you also give us a clue on the odd-even runway designations and their relation to take-offs and landings? I live in Plymouth(couldn't have guessed, huh?) and some days it seems that the jets are just out of my reach! My friend was an ATC at Metro, but never fully explained that to me. I did get to here about the "boards", though!! What a juggling act!!

Qweek-

I agree that you handled yourself with distinction! After having met Gannon at the last FSC gathering, I encourage buying him a pint. His stories begin to get REAL interesting....They weren't attacking, just "circling".....Perhaps you've earned a few "sodas" for yourself!!
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Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon

Post Number: 8943
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 9:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, the beginnings are always curious...it's the continuation and conclusions that are difficult to reach!

heh


(I'm all for anyone buying me a pint or two, just ONE person per week...my limit is two, some of you have seen me at three! If we could only time this for those weeks when I'm out of cash...)



BTW, our Sunday night at Twingo's is turning out to be another FSC-like night...but with great food and a movie or two thrown in for fun. It is just NOT for the corporate-types that need to be in an office meeting Monday at 8 a.m. or worse! (we start the movie at ten, most of us show between nine and then for a late dinner)

Cheers and then some.
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Dtwflyer
Member
Username: Dtwflyer

Post Number: 53
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 6:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Iheartthed - time of day does not impact operations, neither does direct sunlight. The only impact time of day has is that during the early morning hours between 2-5am when there is virtually no air traffic, if the winds allow, arrivals will come in from the south, and takeoffs will occur going south in order to limit noise over the more populated areas. This can only be done when there is almost no traffic since it goes against flow.

Plymouthres - the runway numbering scheme is based upon the compass heading the runway is aligned with, with the ones digit dropped. Example if it faces 100 degrees its called runway 10. If there are multiple runways in the same direction they are given an L (left), C (center), R (right) suffix. Runways will have two numbers since they can be used in both directions depending on the winds and traffic flow.

For example there are 4 paralell runways the run soutwest to north east at DTW. 3L-21R, 3R-21L, 4L-22R, 4R-22L all have a heading of 35 degrees (for the northeast, or 215 degrees for the southwest). Since it would be confusing to have 4 runways with the same base number, they renumbered the runways when the new 4th runway opened in 2001. The two parallel runways to the west of the terminals are 4L-22R (new runway that opened in 2002) and 4R-22L. The two runways to the east of the terminals are numbered 3L-21R, 3R-22L. Then there are two crosswind runways that face due east-west, 9L-27R and 9R-27L.

As said above the most commonly used configuration has the 21's & 22's in use (for arrivals from the north, departures to the south), and the second most common being the use of the 3's & 4's when arrivals from the south, departures to the north. Typically two runways are used for takeoffs and two runways are used for landings.


DTW Runway Layout

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