Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 Belle Isle Toll Bridge Previous Next
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French777
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Username: French777

Post Number: 133
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 7:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

why isn't their like a $1 or $2 toll to cross the bridge onto Belle Isle and if you walk its Free. Also 100 % of the money goes to park renovations!!
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 875
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 7:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Already was an attempt for that, residents gave the person who created that idea complete hell (Mayor Dennis Archer).
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Michigansheik
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Username: Michigansheik

Post Number: 186
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 7:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i still like the idea of making Belle Isle part of the metro park system. Detroiters pay a millage to fund the metro parks already via their property taxes, but I bet most use Belle Isle more than any metro park. this way the entire county would help pay for the operating of Belle Isle, of course in addition to a metro park pass purchase.
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Iddude313
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Username: Iddude313

Post Number: 63
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 3:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would pay to visit Belle Isle.
IF...there weren't syringes and trash all over.
I think its the only hope Belle Isle has.
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 799
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 3:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Would that be payable in empties, sir?
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 900
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 3:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I would pay to visit Belle Isle.
IF...there weren't syringes and trash all over.
I think its the only hope Belle Isle has."

He is right. Why pay to go somewhere with little recreational options and trash when you can go for free. Not saying that it's a wasteland with green, but there not much there to offer for a toll.
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French777
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Username: French777

Post Number: 135
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 3:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

but 1 dollar or 2 dollars that is not much to ask and if you walk/bike Free.
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6nois
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Username: 6nois

Post Number: 150
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 4:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You would have to pay someone to collect the 1 or 2 dollars so you're defeating the purpose of the money right there.

(Message edited by 6nois on April 15, 2007)
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 2185
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 4:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No, French77, one or two dollars is not much. When Archer proposed the idea that the voters turned down, the minimum cost was three dollars. That's too much. I think psychologically people can fork over a dollar or two without a lot of thought. I'd give a pan handler a dollar before I'd give him or her two or three dollars.

The City should realistically start with a dollar fee per car load and some kind of seasonal pass. That I think would not be objectionable to most Detroiters. After the trial run, see how much money was raised and see if it helps maintain the park. If the money is not enough, then maybe the next year raise the fee to $1.50. Then after that raise it to $2.00. Anything more than two dollars is too much.

(Message edited by royce on April 15, 2007)
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French777
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Username: French777

Post Number: 136
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 4:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Royce, that was exactly what I was thinking
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 2186
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 4:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

6nois, two booths paying seven dollars and hour to two attendants is 14 dollars and hour. Given the fact that the likely attendants would be teenagers putting in less than 40 hours, there's no medical benefits. The costs will be made up in minutes, especially on busy summer days where you'll have 14 cars pay a dollar in five minutes.
Where's the problem?
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Hans57
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Username: Hans57

Post Number: 88
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 4:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does the city have an estimate on how many cars enter the island a year?
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Rjk
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Username: Rjk

Post Number: 680
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 5:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Huron-Clinton Metro Parks charge $4 daily and $20 for an annual. Seniors get the annual for $12.

I can't see the city having a $4 fee to get on BI. Collecting a dollar or two wouldn't get it done.
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Jimaz
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Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 1907
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 7:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hans57, this file says
quote:

[Belle Isle] park is heavily used, with estimates ranging from
6-9 million visitors per year, making it easily the busiest park in the region and State of Michigan.

That's astonishing.
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Jasoncw
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Username: Jasoncw

Post Number: 357
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 8:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think the ways of charging people proposed here are very good, because I think they would really hurt the number of visitors.

People who use the park as part of their routine (morning jog, for example) would have to stop because they probably don't want to pay so much money every day.

It also really discourages people from visiting in general, especially if they have a negative perception of the island. Even if it's only a few dollars, the idea of paying money like that to get in turns people off.


If something is really necessary, I'd say put an automatic toll gate at the front that you need to put 25 or 50 cents in to open.

If 1.5 million people drive to the park every year, that's $375,000 ($.25) to $750,000 ($.50), with next to nothing in setting up and maintaining the money collection.

I think charging anything more is too much, and turns away visitors, and isn't inline with the idea of having the park public and open for all.
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Hybridy
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Username: Hybridy

Post Number: 90
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 8:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

an automatic toll gate would last a total of one weekend before it got busted off
the way people disrespect our city it would be foolish to think that would last
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 359
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 9:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

seriously, i would think that if they thought about it, city voters would appreciate a $2 CAR toll... really, this toll would affect suburban visitors more than urban visitors... who is walking / biking there aside from the odd grosse pointer? these people would get in for free... plus it would discourage our unhealthy car usage. maybe it could be free at certain times... i.e. heavy jogging times... (joggers could drive over, and then run)
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Rjk
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Username: Rjk

Post Number: 681
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 9:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"People who use the park as part of their routine (morning jog, for example) would have to stop because they probably don't want to pay so much money every day."

If someone is running on the Island on a regular basis than they could pay an annual fee like they charge at the Metro Parks ($20).
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Bvos
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Username: Bvos

Post Number: 2148
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 10:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Those that jog, walk, etc. around the park would probably appreciate the toll if it was invested back into the park. I'm sure they'd like roads and sidewalks that they won't break their ankles on or get wet in puddles. They'd also probably like bathrooms that are maintained.

As Rjk said, if you're that regular of a user $20 a year is cheap. It's a good investment to help make a beautiful place even more beautiful.
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6nois
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Username: 6nois

Post Number: 153
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 11:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Andylinn the city of Detroit is massive going from NW Detroit or West Detroit to BI on foot would be a pain. So it will affect both urban and suburban visitors. I have gone to the island and really it doesn't seem that trashed. I have been to worse parks.
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Bulletmagnet
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Username: Bulletmagnet

Post Number: 288
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 10:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like your idea French777. You would get paid a dollar when stopped at the island toll both. It should increase visitors. Sweet!
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Jerome81
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Username: Jerome81

Post Number: 1355
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 1:46 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm all for it. A yearly pass for $20 is more than reasonable.
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Superduperman
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Username: Superduperman

Post Number: 287
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 4:38 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

People pay more than that to get on the giant slide at belle isle,a couple bucks wouldn't bother most folks.
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Lakesuperior
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Username: Lakesuperior

Post Number: 179
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 12:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i think that the only people who might be stopped by a $1 or $2 fee would be the people who came out mainly to cruise the island in their cars (which is fine by me). $1 or $2 is not a lot if you want to have a picnic, see the fountain, etc. and a annual $20 pass for joggers/walkers/rowers/whateve r is SO reasonable. belle isle NEEDS the money.
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Upinottawa
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Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 807
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 12:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Paying $1 or $2 dollars to cruise the island in your car is a pretty good deal.

Question: does Belle Isle "close" at night?
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Peter
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Username: Peter

Post Number: 39
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 4:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For now it is a good idea to charge $1 or $2 to access the park, just because the city is so short on cash. But if there is ever a time in our future where Detroit has a surplus of cash then there should no longer be a charge. Parks like Belle Isle are huge asset's to a city. Here in Boston we have the Common and the Public Garden, in NYC there is Central Park among others... all of which are free of charge. Those centrally located parks see a lot of foot traffic each day and Belle Isle is the closest thing Detroit has to a Boston Common or Central Park and it would be a shame to see it deteriorate more than it already has.
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River_rat
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Username: River_rat

Post Number: 264
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 4:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

$5 a person or $10 a car with the proceeds going to the upkeep of the island and facilities would make it a great place. Let the crackies and shooters find somewhere else.
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Lakesuperior
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Username: Lakesuperior

Post Number: 180
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 4:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

as far as i know, belle isle does close at night now. from 10pm until 6am, i believe. this is a new thing though-- as recently as two years ago you could go out there any time of day or night. a situation i took full advantage of-- belle isle is great in the middle of the night!
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 89
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 4:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If the city or the metroparks started charging a fee to get into Belle Isle, then the park would definitely improve.

I think the best solution is for the city to sell it to the Metro Parks. This is good for a variety of reasons.

1. The sale of the park would bring an immediate infusion of cash to help deal with the current budget crisis.

2. It would get the upkeep of the park off the city books, thus reducing the amount of spending the city has to make, further helping mitigate the budget crisis.

3. Funds earned from daily and seasonal passes would go towards park renovations, maintenance, and security. This would make the park cleaner, safer, and better than it has been in years.

In my mind, it's a no-brainer.
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Texorama
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Username: Texorama

Post Number: 14
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 4:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's true, Archer's idea was $3. Many people feel comfortable paying a dollar as a kind of goodwill gesture for something that's worth keeping going. I think it's worth a shot, especially if done in tandem with a new initiative such as reopening the aquarium or a major cleanup.
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Vas
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Username: Vas

Post Number: 695
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 4:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thats a good plan Royce. Start at a buck and see what happens. Two dollars a visit seems high to me.
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Upinottawa
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Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 810
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 4:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How about a $2 per car "recommended donation"?
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French777
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Username: French777

Post Number: 139
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 6:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yeah Upinottawa, because I live in Rochester Hills and if anyone has heard of the Arts and Apples Festival the sign says 5 recommended donation and like 80 % of the people do. So yeah and some would donate more!!
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Jerome81
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Username: Jerome81

Post Number: 1359
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 7:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That is a good point about Central Park not charging a fee. None of the Chicago parks do either.

So, I say you spin it off as the MacArthur Bridge is a "toll" bridge, but park access is free :-) How's that sound?
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 913
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 7:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why pay to go to the park anyway. Isn't the reason we go to the park anyway is to get away from the pains of spending money to have fun?????
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 90
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 10:07 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Urbanize,

The reason to go to the park is to spend some time in the outdoors. In order to keep that outdoors as pristine as possible, you might have to pay for it.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 635
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 10:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"So, I say you spin it off as the MacArthur Bridge is a "toll" bridge, but park access is free :-) How's that sound?"

Actually, I think that's always been the proposal. I don't think anyone ever proposed a pedestrian fee, did they?
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 925
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 11:28 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"The reason to go to the park is to spend some time in the outdoors. In order to keep that outdoors as pristine as possible, you might have to pay for it."

My point is, you can go in the backyard to get outdoors for free.
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Blaw82
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Username: Blaw82

Post Number: 135
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 12:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm all for charging cars and helping out in the upkeep of the park. Right now I live in Wyoming (military) and some of the parks out here you have to pay $20 a car to get into. A couple of dollars isn't that much.
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 91
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 2:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Urbanize,

Come on now. Let's be honest, most backyards doing compare with Belle Isle.
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Eric
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Username: Eric

Post Number: 773
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 2:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There ways to improve the park without having charge visitors, Detroiters are taxed to death already. Central Park is run by conservancy, has there ever been any serious discussion about Friends of Belle Isle taking over all or some management of the park?
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El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 92
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 3:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How is the Central Park conservancy funded? How would the Friends of Belle Isle fund the operation of the park?
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Detroit313
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Username: Detroit313

Post Number: 309
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 3:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Belle Isle really doesn't need a toll. If the city was smart they could really make a lot of money and improve the park at once.

1. Close the park after 8p and weekends to car traffic and run busses and shuttles to be coordinated with the parks and recs. dept.

2. On the park, horses and carriage rides should be available; not just on the island but on the alone the riverfront.

Just a thought 313
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 2191
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 1:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So, Detroit313, you are suggesting that the city charge a fee for people to ride the busses, shuttles, horses, and carriage rides? No? Well, in order to get all of these things the city is going to have to charge people for something. There's no money in the recreation department budget to do all of these things.
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Auspower
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Username: Auspower

Post Number: 11
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 6:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Funny, I was driving around Belle Isle yesterday. I said the same thing. The Island is so Beautiful and has great views of Detroit and the River. It was a traffic jam there were so many cars on the Island. I think 50 cents would be enough. There had to be a couple thousand cars on the island when I was there. It doesn't take too many cars to pay for two people to take the toll money for a day. I think it is a great idea.
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Detroit313
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Username: Detroit313

Post Number: 315
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 10:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bonds, Loans, Donations.....The city had $100 million from the casinos a couple of years back. Go after boosters; they could charge for advertising signs on the buses, shuttles; even on the horses' asses!!!313

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