Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning January 2007 » Why doesn't Michigan have Toll Roads « Previous Next »
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French777
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Post Number: 134
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

why don't we. I was just in Florida and 1 car pays almost 5 dollars after your done with the Turnpike. That could really boost money for roads.
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Dodgemain
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Post Number: 149
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 9:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Who needs them. I'm down in Tampa this week. I hate them. I would rather pay a tax than have to stop and wait in line.
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Pffft
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Post Number: 1270
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 9:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Unfortunately we bid out roads for the cheapest deal, which is why our roads don't last as long as they should. We should be paying for quality roads that will stand up longer.
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Schulzte1
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Username: Schulzte1

Post Number: 83
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 9:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It sounds petty, but toll roads are a regressive tax, I would rather road funding came out of sales and income tax. Michigan has prided itself in having "free"ways
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 1183
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 9:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is next to impossible to retrofit roads as toll roads. To do so would cost an incredible amount of money. If you look at how interchanges exist in Michigan; then compare them to toll roads elsewhere you will notice major differences. New technologies such as GPS and bar codes will enable us to do this in the future (not that I am saying there is a plan to do so...).
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 5217
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 9:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michigan will never emulate Illinois. That system is so fucked up, it is a sad excuse for highways. As for Pennsylvania, Indiana, and Ohio, you too can go to hell!

No state should be allowed to call an Interstate a toll road. Oklahoma, go to hell too.

jjaba, hates toll roads.
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Jimaz
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Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 1904
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Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 9:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

(Oklahoma is conspicuously filled with toll roads.)
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 885
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We don't have Toll roads because we don't need them. As they say, don't fix something that's not broke, and Michigan Roads aren't broke "enough" for Toll Roads.
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Hybridy
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Username: Hybridy

Post Number: 89
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

second jjaba on the illinois
i drive through chicago about 6 times a year
and it costs more than $7 each way
i will do it in the middle of the night because of the awful traffic
and bypassing downtown is $2 more plus 1.5 hrs added to the drive
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 925
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 10:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I believe toll roads usually exist on roads not have a lot of non-resident travel, like touristy states such as Florida or states people drive through to get to other states, such as Ohio...

the idea is that it's only fair to make those who use the road but don't live in the state share some of the costs....
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Miss_cleo
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Username: Miss_cleo

Post Number: 520
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Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 10:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

funny though, all the toll roads I have been on have been as smooth as silk. Nary a pot hole in sight. THAT sure would be nice, wouldnt it?
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Johnnny5
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Username: Johnnny5

Post Number: 492
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Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 10:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They're not bad if you use them on vacation, but try living there and you'll learn to hate them. I lived in the Tampa area for a while and the couple dollars can really add up! $1.00 X2 (there and back)=($2.00) X5 trips a week(to work and back) =($10.) + at least two misc trips per week there and back (Grocery shopping/visiting friends/etc)= $14.00 X 52 weeks per year. That's over $700 per year in toll charges. Granted most don't use these roads/bridges that often, but many do. Then there are the costs to staff the toll ways and the traffic headache that the toll booths can cause. They're a pain in the A$$. IMO gas taxes are (at the moment) the fairest and most efficient way to pay for road maintenance and construction.

(Message edited by Johnnny5 on April 14, 2007)
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Bulletmagnet
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Username: Bulletmagnet

Post Number: 279
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Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 10:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When we traveled out east last summer we paid at every road, bridge, tunnel, exit and state we drove through. They did have "speed pass" that let you fly right through the toll gate. The bill would come once a month in the mail. You have to have a ton of change on you at all times, and it is a pain in the ass. But it does look like the roads and such are in better condition then they are in Michigan, but that’s not saying much.
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Superduperman
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Post Number: 284
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Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 10:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The toll in Atlanta(400) seems like more of a shortcut,you are able to bypass it if you'd like but it would take you longer to get where you are going.
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Gibran
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Username: Gibran

Post Number: 195
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 10:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Toll roads are ok ,,, they can be a pain if you don't have change :}....I have a pass that lets me travel each month..I never know if it is accurate or not...I guess i need to pay closer attention...granted the toll roads are somewhat better..but with winter cold and summer heat they all take a Toll on the highways...(no pun attended)...The problem is on the limited income folks....that's another 50 per month they would have to come up with ...
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 1210
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Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 11:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Toll roads are a pain in the ass. Wisconsin doesn't have tolls and we still have magnificent roads.

You need to pay for them some way, taxes or tolls. Tolls are more fair, but they're a bigger pain in the ass.
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 668
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 11:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As long as they don't put toll roads on Fort St. or Lafayette, I'd support 'em. I rarely leave the city anyway. hehe
But seriously, this would be a disaster. Many people in this economy can barely afford to put food on the table right now let alone $3-gas in their car AND $3 in the tollbooth keeper's clutches every time they hit the road.
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Wolverine
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Post Number: 307
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Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 12:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't mind toll roads. Then again, I own an I-Pass, so I don't have to wait to pay.

But I agree on the difficulty in constructing such a system in Michigan. Just imagine how many ramps we would have to demolish. At least 2/3 of them would have to go on a particular route, and then all toll plazas we would have to build.
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 1334
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Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 12:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"No state should be allowed to call an Interstate a toll road. Oklahoma, go to hell too.
jjaba, hates toll roads."

Once again, Jjaba speaks wisely. I=44 in OK from Joplin, MO, to OKC is the most boring road in the US. Well, next to I-80 in Nebraska, anyway. But at least I-80 is free.

No toll roads in Nevada. Y'all come visit, hear?
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Gsgeorge
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Username: Gsgeorge

Post Number: 129
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 12:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We don't have thru-state travelers very often, except Canadians heading to Chicago or out West.

One bad result: we don't have fancy rest stops and filling stations along our interstates, but the good thing is that people go into towns to get gas/food, supporting local economies. I'm happy without toll roads. I don't want to pay every time I get on I-94, thanks...

p.s. F*CK OHIO. I Hate Hate Hate Ohio with it's damned toll roads. And the cops out there are bastarding snakes. GO TO HELL OHIO.
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Focusonthed
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Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 922
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 1:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hate the Chicago toll roads, but I'm in favor of them. Since I don't (or, rarely) drive on them, I don't want to pay for them. It works out this way.

Oh, and Hybridy, do you have I-Pass? I-Pass gives you a 50% discount on Illinois toll roads, not to mention lets you breeze through tolls without stopping. Sounds like you come through enought o make it worthwhile. Florida, so I hear, does not do this (give discounts to pass holders), which I was appalled to hear.
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Jrvass
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Post Number: 74
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Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 1:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You all are thinking in the 20th century... but that is OK, so are the state toll road people.

In NASCAR for the past 10+ years, they have had a system developed by EDS that puts a RFID chip in each car. Every time the car passes over a sensor wire in the pavement, a real-time signal is sent to a computer to calculate lap speed, what place the car is (leader, runner-up, etc.).

The same technology could be put in place on the, no-longer, freeways every 10 miles or whatever. The data could be collected nightly and tabulated for each RFID and the person's car that RFID is registered to. The toll commissar sends you a monthly bill. No stopping. No toll booths. No toll collectors. No demolishing of ramps. No change.

And there better be no gas tax!

I'd personally, probably be more screwed than most with a 110-mile daily commute. I'd have to run the numbers.

But these brand new crumbling freeways, bridges, and asphalt that turns into goo in the summer sun (anyone remember that?) is BS. Maybe if we renamed all of the roads after Sen. Robert Byrd of WV, we would get some Federal road funds.

James
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Karl
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Post Number: 6774
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Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 1:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Spent some time on California's toll roads last week. It appears that only some of the newest roads are toll - and definitely save time. The road situation there is messed - increases in traffic have always exceeded road construction. Some roads constructed with 2 lanes are now up to 5, with little added pavement. Harrowing to say the least, especially at 70mph.

Latest wrinkle in CA: Toll HOV lanes on a few non-toll roads. Yikes.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 8936
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Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 2:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Toll the type-As.

Michigan cannot support them because people and freight do not NEED to drive up here. We get traffic on I-94 in part because it parallels the I-80/90 tollroad through Indiana and Ohio.


I've taken to driving Route 66 through Oklahoma, that long stretch of toll interstate is not only the most boring of roads on the way out west...it is one of the few where people regularly exceed the speed limit by over 25 mph!


There is a great Mexican breakfast/lunch joint north of the interstate in Elk City, btw. Spent a weekend there learning how to fix my own alternator a year or so ago!



Nah, toll roads are a horrible idea, they tie up traffic in every case, speedpass or none. Tax the gasoline/diesel. Build good roads...Michigan's problem with roads is from the materials used and a higher per axel weight limit (another way they bribe truckers to drive this far north, and an acquiescing to the OLD style of auto building...way outdated and terrible to our roads)
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 619
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 4:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Toll roads are a good way to slow down traffic... isn't always a bad idea. It could be set up as a checkpoint system on some of Michigan's roads.
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Gravitymachine
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Username: Gravitymachine

Post Number: 1590
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Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 4:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

We don't have thru-state travelers very often, except Canadians heading to Chicago or out West.




this reply makes the most valid argument, then again with the truck traffic on 69 between port huron and the indiana line, revenue potential is there...

i don't mind the thruway in new york myself and i'd agree to this far sooner than i would a services tax
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5365
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Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 4:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Though Michigan doesn't get a lot of thru state travel from your average driver, we get more than our share of truck traffic traveling over the border. Detroit-Windsor is the busiest international crossings in the world, so we could finally tax the hell out of the heavy trucks that help damage our roads, but I'm still not sure what that end up amounting to.

BTW, it was either the News or Freep that just did a story about the roads and why their so bad, and they found it wasn't due to poor materials used in road construction than anything else. If we're just going to keep pumping money into our road and highway system, which is being rebuilt with sub-par materials, what would the point be? What we have to do is start paying for materials that will last, which means this automatic "lowest bidder" crap has got to go out the window. You pay for what you get one way or the other.
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Ndavies
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Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 9:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One thing you are forgetting is the Federal government used to discourage toll roads. They would greatly reduce federal funding for a road that was intended to be a toll road. So toll roads are tradeoffs. If you build a toll road you leave a large chunk of federal money on the table.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5798
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Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 9:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michigan did have toll roads over 100 years ago. In Dearborn, MI. there used to be a toll both at the Fairlane area for a toll bridge on Michigan Ave. between Southfield FWY and Evergreen Rd.
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Futurecity
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Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 10:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Toll roads are an excellent idea for two reasons:

1. The users are a primary source of funding.

2. They are generally kept in excellent shape (the direct opposite of Michigan roads).
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Bob
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Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 10:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The I-Pass is good if you travel in Illinois a lot, but if you don't its not worth your money because there is like a $50 minimum that has to be kept on the pass.
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Jiminnm
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Post Number: 1237
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Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 11:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Toll roads have become more than an ongoing revenue producer for states, they've become an asset to sell or lease for $$ today, as in Indiana, Chicago, Virginia, etc.:
http://www.wtol.com/Global/sto ry.asp?S=4765129
http://www.usatoday.com/news/n ation/2006-07-15-u.s.-highways _x.htm
http://www.motherjones.com/new s/feature/2007/01/highwaymen.h tml
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Mcp001
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Post Number: 2559
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Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 12:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We are already paying tolls on our roads.

Why do you think that Michigan (and the federal government, although we never seem to get back what we put in), takes a portion of what we pay for in fuel? Why do you think that it really costs what is does for a driver's license or a vehicle plate?

That money doesn't just go to the cheerful people that we meet in person at the SOS, or deal with on the phone. It also goes into road construction and maintenance.

The MITA crowd really needs to come up with ways to cut its costs in order to get more work, instead of looking for new and innovative ways of shaking us down for more $$$.
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Wolverine
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Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 2:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jrvass, thanks for bringing that technology to our attention. Never knew existed, but sounds like a cheap (and fair) way of collecting tolls.
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Ray
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Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 2:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like the idea of anything that discourages driving and private ownership of automobiles and encourages public transit. So toll roads sound good to me.
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Bearinabox
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Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 4:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Toll roads scare me. Seems too easy for the state police to start issuing speeding tickets based on elapsed time between checkpoints.
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Mcp001
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Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 5:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From what I was told, Ohio did do this for a while until it was affecting the number of people using I-80.

After that, they discontinued the practice.
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6nois
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Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 8:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Toll roads bad. As a student it would kill me. I don't go home much but it would be going even less if I had to pay to go up I-75. We already pay for the roads with gas taxes and that pays for all roads not just highways. So it is fair. As for it promoting public transit, it won't because public transportation doesn't exist. There is no other way for me to go up north, so its not going to do anything in that case, and many others as well. Boo toll roads.
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Andylinn
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Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 9:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

toll roads are good. i'd be a heavy supported of more expensive gasoline and paid toll roads. these automotive penalties would be a more tangible tax for the common commuter than the current tax / pay system for roads. maybe people would finally decide to live where they worked or to not drive so damn much... maybe my mom would stop driving 45 minutes to get to meijer when she lives 5 minutes from harbor town & jefferson farmer jack, and 10 minutes from eastern market, university foods, & honey bee
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Professorscott
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Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 11:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Federal Highway Administration does not allow toll roads on interstate highways. Several states that already operated turnpikes were "grandfathered" when the turnpike was assigned an I- number. So for instance the New York Thruway, which was a toll highway already, was allowed to remain a toll highway after it was assigned the numbers I-90 (west of Albany) and I-87 (south of Albany).

New toll roads are state highways, such as all new toll highways in Illinois. In cities with massive congestion, it is sometimes possible to build a toll highway in a major congested corridor, such as Toronto has done with the 407 tollway.

In Michigan, there just isn't anywhere it would be practical to build a toll highway, whether you like them or not. The Interstates can't be retrofitted as tollways, and they cover the major corridors. Congestion isn't bad enough to justify a parallel toll highway.

Toll roads are neither good nor bad. One way to pay for highway maintenance, neither more nor less.

Incidentally no state has ever issued speeding tickets based on toll highway fare payment times. This is an urban legend. However, on the Pennsylvania Turnpike, you can get in trouble for spending too much time on the highway. (They take it as evidence you fare-jumped earlier and then got back on the road.)
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Quozl
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Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 11:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Toll roads are neither good nor bad. One way to pay for highway maintenance, neither more nor less.


Yea right, whatever you say prof. I disagree as I have used Toll Roads for 30+ years and have a different view:

Greater Efficiency: Toll roads, when used to reduce congestion through charges that reflect current utilization, send signals to consumers about the full cost of using the road. This includes not only wear-and-tear costs, but also the costs imposed by an additional driver on the travel speed of all other drivers.
Building the Right Amount of Facilities: Without proper price signals, the building of expensive new urban roadways facilitates continually increasing congestion. With road pricing, however, the over-use of a facility is kept in check, since as congestion rises, prices also go up.
Financing of New Facilities: If congestion rises, prices rise and that provides a signal for expansion of facilities. In such situations bond financing can be raised to pay for the project, with the future toll collections used as collateral.
Reducing Sprawl: Urban sprawl is the direct result of under-pricing of roadways. If drivers were required to pay the true cost of using a roadway, there would be less incentive to keep moving further away from job centers.
Fairness: Users pay for their use in proportion to their use. Where congestion charges (or time-of-day pricing) are implemented, they pay for the cost (congestion-loss of time, wasted energy, etc.) they impose on each other.
Greater Safety: According to studies, the accident rate on toll roads where the flow of traffic is more even is lower.
Matching Costs and Benefits: Most roadways are funded through gasoline excise taxes. These taxes do not measure costs imposed by driving as they fail to address differences in fuel economy and the maintenance cost imposed by different vehicle weights. A toll system charges for use directly.
Increased Fuel Economy: By increasing the overall capacity of a region’s transportation system, toll roads are able to absorb some of the traffic that would otherwise use non-toll highways and interstates. The result is a decrease in overall traffic congestion. Vehicles on both toll and non-toll roadways are able to move at more fuel efficient speeds.

FYI: Houston Toll Roads save drivers:
• Over $182 million a year from the travel time saved as a result of reduced traffic congestion during just the daily peak periods;
• Over 2 million gallons of gasoline per year as a result of improved fuel efficiency;
• Over $7 million per year in total savings from improved fuel efficiency.

(Message edited by quozl on April 16, 2007)
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Udmphikapbob
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Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 8:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quozl stole my thunder...

If we had some toll roads in place over the last couple of decades, maybe all the new jobs wouldn't be located in new industrial parks west of 275 and north of m-59.
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El_jimbo
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Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 9:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think toll roads are a good thing for this state. Even if it is just a commercial vehicle toll. NAFTA is KILLING Michigan's roads. The increase in truck traffic is causing pavements to breakdown much faster than was anticipated in many areas. I-69 is being reconstructed YEARS ahead of schedule in certain areas due to the increase in commercial traffic. going to and from the Bluewater Bridge. I-94 is beat up over almost its entire length due to the same thing and bad soil conditions and heavy truck use are quickly bringing about the need of a mega-road reconstruction project along I-75 in Monroe County. Charging a toll along these routes would supply the money neccesary to maintain these roads properly.

I just wish these roads were tolls from the beginning. I've noticed some things on toll roads that I really like. They cut sprawl. How does a toll road cut sprawl? A toll road is much more self-contained than a standard expressway. There are fewer exits which means fewer roadside gas stations and fast food joints (you can get those in the rest stops anyway). Oh well. too late now.
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Aarne_frobom
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Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 9:35 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some more points on highway finance:

Tolls are now permitted on federal-aid highways, including the Interstates, under certain circumstances: for reconstructed roads, for free-access roads converted to freeways, and for experiments in congestion pricing where the toll varies so as to prevent traffic jams.

To compare the price you're paying to use Michigan roads with toll roads, you can do a little arithmetic. Figure out the number of gallons of gas you buy each year by dividing the miles traveled by the fuel economy of your car. Then multiply the gallons by the federal gas-tax rate of 18.4 cents/gallon and the Michigan rate of 18.7 cents. Then add the fuel taxes paid to the amount of registration tax as it appears on your car registration.

If, say you drive 15,000 miles/year at 20 m.p.g., and pay a typical plate tax of $95, this works out to $373/year, or $1.02/day. Per mile, that's about two and a half cents. This pays for most of Michigan's road and transit systems, with the remainder covered by transit fares and property taxes in the (relatively few) places that have road or transit millage levies. Your $1.02/day also pays the share of road and transit taxes syphoned off by Congress for other states (about 10% of federal road tax but almost 60% of the transit tax).

By comparison, tolls on rural toll roads like Ohio's and Indiana's are 7 to 17 cents/mile. New suburban toll roads in Virginia and California can exceed 35 cents/mile.

So if the last mile of Michigan road you drove on sucked -- relax, you only paid 2.5 cents to use it.

(Message edited by Aarne_frobom on April 16, 2007)
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56packman
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Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 10:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Illinois has those meshugina toll booths along the freeways surrounding Chicago--you are going 70+ then the whole works STOPS, three lanes widens out to eight, you give them their 40 cents, then everyone floors it again--and seven and a half miles later you do it again.
Whatever ass designed that system never took the Ohio (et al) turnpike, where you pay by what entrance ramp to which exit ramp you traveled, and the process of collecting fare is done off of the "freeway"

If it ever comes to Michigan I respectfully suggest that we have the option of paying with returnable bottles and cans--the collection machines could be a cross between the catch basket type and the returnable machines in the vestibule of your local supermarket.
Pay your toll, clean your car.
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 283
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 10:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The older turnpikes don't work the way Illinois does it in Chicagoland. On the old turnpikes, for the most part, you get a fare-ticket when you get on, and you pay when you get off. For instance in New York there are only two traffic-stopping toll plazas on the entire 400+ mile length: one near Buffalo for traffic entering from Ontario or Pennsylvania, and one north of New York City for traffic entering from the south.

I agree with the sprawl comments. Toll roads usually don't have nearly as many exits as freeways. I can't imaging that there will ever be toll highways in Michigan; it is not easy to sell politically, and no new roads are being built any time soon.
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Renfirst
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Username: Renfirst

Post Number: 29
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 11:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Funny thing about toll roads ... went to Illinois with a car full of co-workers 3 months ago... The boss was at the wheel and was not amused by the toll traffic, so he drove through the E-Pass underpass instead of the toll side. We did this on 4 occassions over the course of the weekend. Have not received one ticket yet. Mind you, this was the third time in the last year that we'd gone to Chicago on business as a group, and the third time the boss decided to utilize the e-pass side to bypass traffic... not one ticket yet.
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Dds
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Username: Dds

Post Number: 209
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 11:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

FYI: Houston Toll Roads save drivers:



Things must have changed since the mid 90's. I used to use tollways in Houston because there were never any traffic on them. Even during rush hour, the Hardy Toll Road seemed deserted (to a point). I always wondered if the tolls collected annually ever paid for their upkeep.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 5221
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 12:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Professorscott, so it's ok for the States to collect huge Federal subsdies from everybody and still charge tolls? That just isn't right and isn't done in all states.

I like the Ohio comments, "just passing through." That's a classic since we all know there's nothing IN Ohio. Ditto, Indiana.

Thejesus is way off base about taxes. jjaba doesn't use mental hospitals, prisons, like the war in Iraq, nor have children in public schools.
We all pay taxes for everything, and we all should be able to use the services. Toll roads defy that concept.

They always say the tolls will stop when the bonds are matured. There are 100 yr. old bridges where tolls are still collected and the bonds ended before the Depression. Gimme a break!

Thanks Ray1936. Nevada is our kinda state. And what goes down in Nevada stays on the Westside.

jjaba, no to toll roads. (A Michigan tradition.)
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Waxx
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Username: Waxx

Post Number: 117
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 10:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was in Chicago recently and me and a friend of mine paid tolls along the way. True, toll roads are VERY inconvenient, but at the same time-like a few people posted, tolls keep the roads smoother. This may cause an uproar to some, but I'm in favour of them here in Detroit. And I agree with Pffft, we should be paying for our roads to last a LOT longer (MOST states do it), but if Michigan were to do it (and it needs it BADLY!), these folks who patch up our thoroughfares wouldn't be patching them up. To those who run our state, that's too much like common sense!
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Bulletmagnet
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Username: Bulletmagnet

Post Number: 289
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 10:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like your idea of toll roads for Michigan French777. When you stop at a toll booth, you would be paid to ride on the road. Should get more people to travel into Michigan.
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Jerome81
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Username: Jerome81

Post Number: 1354
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 1:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Going westbound on cross-bay bridges costs $4.00/crossing. Southbound on Golden Gate is $5.00.

I know people that cross the bridge 1x/day, 5 days a week for the entire working year.

Having to pay a couple bucks 1 time to use the Skyway in Chicago seems like a good deal to me.

But the backups they create waste far more time and fuel and create far more pollution than the tolls they collect. I say hell-no to toll roads unless nobody (not even one car) has to slow down to pay them. And even then, they should be fairly reasonable. $4.00/pass would (is) excessive. I'm just glad I only have to do it once every few months.

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