Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2007 Mass Transit Ain't Cuttin' It Previous Next
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 943
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 7:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit is desperate for mass transit. I know there are many threads about this, but for folks who ride DDOT and/or Smart, I want you to describe the customer satisfaction (1-10) they provide you with. I prefer Smart (6), as with DDOT I have encountered several problems with their bus rides.
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Tetsua
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Username: Tetsua

Post Number: 1167
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 7:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

...as with DDOT I have encountered several problems with their bus rides



Only several :-)
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Urbanize
Member
Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 944
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 7:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Only several"

Well I had to summarize (lol).
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 884
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 9:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

SMART gets a 7 from me. Grosse Pointe routes are actually pretty good.
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Fury13
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Username: Fury13

Post Number: 1536
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 10:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I take SMART nearly every day. It gets a 4 1/2 from me.

I used to take DDOT, a few years ago. I give DDOT a solid 2.

New York City's transit system is a 10 and Chicago's is a 9. Portland's is a 7.
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 1206
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 10:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I ride both systems. Where I live both systems pick-up to take you in all directions. While it is a far from perfect way of getting around, I can't really say one is worse than the other. I do know there are times when scheduled buses just don't show up; this could set you back a half an hour or so. Both systems do work. I am always impressed by how you can walk off one bus and onto another if you transfer at major streets.
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Futurecity
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Username: Futurecity

Post Number: 516
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 10:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

New York and Toronto are definitely 10's. Chicago gets about a 6.5. I would never rate a bus-only system higher than a 3.

Metro Detroit's mish-mash of dual bus systems and crazy rules ("can't let you off here 'cause this is SMART and we're not allowed"!) gets a 1.5.
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Miketoronto
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Username: Miketoronto

Post Number: 533
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 10:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't want to jump the gun yet, and I know I mentioned this ages ago. But my friend and I are really serious about getting a documentary off the ground on the MASS TRANSIT MISERY in Detroit.

We want to inteview riders, follow them around, etc.
We still need to sit down and hammer out the details, but it is something we are looking into.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 804
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 2:46 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I suppose that you might as well beat up on the city while it is down; Detroit never seems to get enough bad publicity.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5387
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 3:01 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Many Detroit transit advocates would appreciate a documentary like that.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5827
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 8:14 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

With our economy in Michigan in shambles, mass transit in the Metro-Detroit area is nothing but a sci-fi pipe dream.

I'll stick with the good ol' primative transit system like D-DOT ans SMART.
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Swingline
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Username: Swingline

Post Number: 788
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 9:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've never been able to completely figure out the transfer policies or the SMART rules for picking up and dropping off passengers in Detroit.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5834
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 9:12 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's how it goes Swingline:

Most SMART busses Like Woodward, Fort St , Michigan Ave, Van Dyke, John R, Dequindre St. and Gratiot Ave. Don't drop off passengers in Detroit heading outbound in Detroit but only in the suburbs until after 6:00pm. SMART busses that do inbound routes to Detroit don't pick up passengers in Detroit until after 6:00pm. For it could ruin D-DOT bus transit lines.

Therefore SMART remains local suburban pick ups and drop offs and D-DOT remains city pick ups and drop offs.
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 1210
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 9:38 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

SMART will pick up and drop odd in Warrendale due to its odd geography of going in and out of the city.
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Rb336
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Username: Rb336

Post Number: 22
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 9:56 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

all i remember when I had to take a buss for a month was that the D-DOT busses were mostly on time, SMART busses (John R in Oakland County, i think) were always at least 20 minutes late, often(at least 5 times) one wouldn't even show for nearly 2 hours
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Lukabottle
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Username: Lukabottle

Post Number: 30
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 10:04 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have had similar experiences to Rb336. However, I typically ride DDOT during high volume times, around 5pm. The Dexter, Hamilton, Gratiot, Crosstown, and Woodward run so often during rush hour, I never wait more than 15 minutes.
SMART is a whole other story. I typically have bad luck with these routes. (Gratiot more recently)I find it is normally always extremely late.
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Rocket_city
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Username: Rocket_city

Post Number: 227
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 11:18 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I ride DDOT and give it an 8.

I only ride the Woodward Line from Midtown to downtown and back, so that may be bias.

The only problems I've had with DDOT are the occassional hoodlums who behave like animals in public without remorse. There's kids, families and the elderly that ride the bus who deserve a cleaner environment and no one really seems to care to do anything about them.

SMART is atrocious. The way they've changed up their city routes is so backwards. I've always been refused to ride, EVEN IF the SMART was dropping someone off at my stop. To me that's like a retail shopper going up to the cashier to pay and the cashier refuses their business and closes the register.

Needless to say, I'll support DDOT and the relatively satisfactory trips that I've had while riding. This makes supporting Detroit-based business more important to me too since if, for whatever reason I don't have my car to travel to the suburbs, I won't have to end up taking the SMART.

SMART's slogan should be: "SMART: It's dumb."
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 954
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 11:26 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rocket, that is a bit biased. I have had many issues with DDOT environment on the buses, maintenance, and drivers. Where as Smart, hardly ever. The Gratiot bus driver are kind, their clean, and they even sneak and let you off in the city.
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Fury13
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Username: Fury13

Post Number: 1537
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 6:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Any bus system where the frequency of buses is more than 10 minutes apart during peak hours (on any given route) is deficient.

In other words, a transit system should attempt to meet the scheduling needs of the public it serves; the system shouldn't put the onus on the riders to tailor their schedules to coincide with buses than run only once or twice an hour.

Here's how it works in a real transit system (i.e., NYC or Chicago): a bus or subway train comes every 5 to 8 minutes on a route during peak periods. It's no big deal if you miss a bus/train. You'll probably still be on time, wherever you're going, if you have to catch the next one.

The lack of frequency is the single biggest reason that public transit in metro Detroit sucks.

(Message edited by Fury13 on April 19, 2007)
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Sticks
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Username: Sticks

Post Number: 271
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 7:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fury, is that the transit authorities fault that not enough people are around to warrant running a bus down a line every 10 minutes here in metro Detroit? Or could it be a factor of more exurb travel, more sprawl, or more cars per capita?
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Fury13
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Username: Fury13

Post Number: 1538
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 7:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sticks, as the saying goes:

Build it, and they will come.
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 289
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 12:00 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why our transit system is ineffective:

From the 1940s through the 1980s, metro Detroit spent billions of dollars on freeways. From the 1930s through the mid 1950s, the regional transit services switched from nearly 100% rail-based to 100% bus-based.

The transit systems, when they abandoned in-street rail lines, promoted how "flexible" it would be. They were no longer "tied down" to any particular route. The businesses, which had spent billions of dollars to locate along these lines to which the service providers were no longer "tied down", took note of this and started moving to be near the new permanent transportation infrastructure: exit ramps of the new expressways.

At the same time, people moved into suburban single-family homes, where the yards were a bit larger and the taxes were a lot lower. The fact that there was no transit to speak of in these new subdivisions was untroubling; everyone could drive everywhere now that we had all these freeways.

So gradually, the people stopped making living choices based on transit; the businesses stopped making location choices based on transit, and transit became irrelevant.

Now, since the 1980s, most communities have reinstituted rail-based transit: a permanent infrastructure near which businesses and residents are choosing, in city after city, to locate. We have stubbornly kept to our bus-only systems, which now service a vast area of spread-out population and can nearly nowhere serve it effectively.

These are the choices we've made, and so this is where we now are. We have the worst economy of any big city region and we keep spreading the same number of people over an ever-growing geographic area, so everyone is responsible for more miles of street and water pipe and sewer pipe than 30 or 60 years ago, and with less money to pay for it.

Can we change? Anyone can change. Will we change? God only knows.
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Rocket_city
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Username: Rocket_city

Post Number: 230
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 12:49 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's interesting that you ask and answer those last two questions, professor.

Interesting because, the results of the quality of life survey authored by One D came out today in metromode.

If you look at how public transportation performed, you'll see that those who responded are well aware that the poor transit here is one of the biggest detriments to the overall quality of life. Makes you wonder...

BUT, then further down, you can make this connection to two other related components of "suburban growth" and "urban redevelopment" and how these three topics create the bulk of quality of life concerns.

THEN, we look further down and notice the concern for lack of regional cooperation and how poor SE Michiganders view their image to be to outsiders - based on race relations, value of education, crime, availability of quality jobs, etc...

So, to me this is raising a red flag, but I'm concerned that regional leadership (mainly political) is color blind and only see a faded gray flag. The signs are there, the hard evidence is there, the dialogue has been spoken for quite some time now, not only here but in other regions who prove on a day to day basis that transit is real.

The concern I have for this survey is the demographic that it was marketed to. I would think that the majority of respondents have a heightened awareness of these types of concerns before taking the survey and thus that's what led them to it. Notice how low Macomb representation is. It makes you wonder how well northern Oakland is represented as well. Then again, I have a strong feeling that people are catching on, especially since more people are identifying with one anothers' crises in this bad economy.
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Rocket_city
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Username: Rocket_city

Post Number: 231
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 12:50 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oops!

http://www.metromodemedia.com/ features/SurveyResults0015.asp x
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J_to_the_jeremy
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Username: J_to_the_jeremy

Post Number: 7
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 9:09 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well, the people have spoken. I still think good public transportation is key to any healthy city. People complain that we can't build a system without developing the economy, but I see no better way to develop the economy than good mass transit.
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 387
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 10:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rocket City

It's a fact that SMART does not qualify for federal transit grants because of refusing to serve the low income and minorities. Yes, it's TRUe and I want to go on television and prove it to get the SMART property tax defeated next August 2010 or to get SMART officials to sign the petition drive to restore state funds needed to restore all pre 1995 bus routes. This will get federal transit grants restored.
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 985
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 10:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pre 1995 bus routes = waste of money. SMART cancelled the 625 service and the 630 service for a reason. Not needed. Those are the two off the top of my head. Someone else can name others. Will you ever talk about something else? My guess is no.
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Urbanize
Member
Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1109
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 10:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well his name says it all Scs. It's ok if he wants to discuss Mass Transit, but he must do it within the respect of other members on the site and I think most of all Lowell. There's more to Detroit than transit and Livonia.

(Message edited by Urbanize on May 05, 2007)
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 986
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 10:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's not that. I always get into an argument with him on most of the transit topics.
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Urbanize
Member
Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1110
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 11:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"It's not that. I always get into an argument with him on most of the transit topics."

If you argue with him, you'll never hear the last of it as he'll Livonia/Smart/Semcog you to death. Just ignore his post and he'll leave the subject alone.
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Scs100
Member
Username: Scs100

Post Number: 987
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 11:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't really care. I just do it to annoy him.
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Urbanize
Member
Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1111
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 11:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice. I guess it's sort of a payback for him annoying us.
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Scs100
Member
Username: Scs100

Post Number: 988
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 11:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hope it does something.

Back to the topic: SMART's rating drops to a 6 because I almost got hit by a bus while rollerblading in GP. (Not really hit, just had to move onto the nearest sidewalk in order to not get hit).
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Urbanize
Member
Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1112
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 11:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL, well DDOT still gets a 2 in my opinion (maybe a 3 because of the luck I've been having with them). However, it's still something about them that just oesn't cut it. Maybe it's the Customer Service overall. Smart does have that at least.

(Message edited by Urbanize on May 05, 2007)
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 989
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 11:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Funny how that stuff works.
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 397
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 2:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

toronto's is a 10. oh, i love toronto... imagine an oasis with no freeways cutting through the city!
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Ordinary
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Username: Ordinary

Post Number: 199
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 10:14 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Could anyone on this thread tell me how difficult it would be for a person to take a bus from St. Clair Shores to Melvindale? How long would it take? How many transfers would I have to make? To me, I think it would be impossible.

Miketoronto, at one time I was thinking about trying to make the above trip on a bus and writing a paper about it for a class I was taking. I think the class was some kind of independent study. I thought people writing about their experiences would be interesting. Never did it though.
A documentary like yours would be interesting but personally I think it would be cheaper and more efficient to buy every person in Detroit a subcompact than to try and get our system in order.
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Jams
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Username: Jams

Post Number: 4938
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 10:35 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

How many transfers would I have to make?



One.

615, 620, 630, or 635 to Downtown transfer to the 150.

Now, how long depends on the time of day.
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Urbanize
Member
Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1116
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 7:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

don't forget the 580 into Downtown Jams.
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 1231
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 8:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trainman, SMART gets a nice chunk of federal Section 5307 and 5309 transit funds. Your argument that it refuses to serve minorities or the poor does not hold water.

Livonia is one of the whitest communities in Southeast Michigan, but does not have SMART service. Suburbs with large black communities such as Inkster and Pontiac are both well served by SMART. In fact both have large facilities run by the agencies.

If a transit agency ignored the poor, it would be out of business.
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 388
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 10:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is the minorities that are denied SMART in Livonia and not whites. Wayne county has the highest number of minorities and low income in the state of Michigan and this includes Livonia.

SMART receives no federal funds under any program to serve the low income or minorities in Wayne County.

SMART has been denied these funds because of the Livonia opt out and the loss of operating funds from the Michigan Department of Transportation and the lack of revenues at the fare box.

According to top state officials and many others, SMART cost too much.

There is much evidence to back these statements

http://savethefueltax.tripod.c om/remain3.html
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Jjw
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Username: Jjw

Post Number: 305
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 3:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A friend of mine is on a business trip to Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic. Streets are messed up there because they are beginning the construction of the first line of the new subway. Why not Detroit?
http://www.railway-technology. com/projects/santodomingo/
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Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman

Post Number: 389
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 6:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why not Detroit?

Because we are building a new Billion dollar freeway by shutting down bus lines.

It is commonly believed even by the most prominent well-known transit advocates and supporters in southeast Michigan that our state needs to shift state fuel tax money away from public bus service to build more and larger freeways and roads.

The residents of Livonia were promised NO state or federal funds for public bus service, if the SMART property tax millage was renewed.

In fact, the supporters of SMART claimed that larger freeways will move the SMART downtown park and rides much faster.

DARTA supporters claimed that a tax on fast food to REPLACE state money is the best solution because then everyone pays instead of just the property owners.

Promises, Promises, Promises.

We all pay more and get less and then NO bus service and more freeways.

It was a truck driver that the Transit advocates used in Livonia to support their mis-guided and stupid StaySMART campaign to keep SMART. It was a real joke, except for the taxpayers who got cheated out of their hard earned money.

This is why Michigan is losing good paying jobs and why we will always lose jobs.

We need leaders that take action instead of giving great speeches.

Talk, Talk, Talk,

And then we lose even more jobs.
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 994
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 7:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is no new freeway! They are just redoing a lot of the old stuff.
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 331
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 11:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trainman,

I read your posts but I'm not sure what you are advocating for or against. Stick to transit: what do you favor? Just curious.

By the way, please name one "prominent well-known transit advocate" who has said Michigan needs to shift fuel tax money away from bus service to build more roads. Just one, please.

By the way, I don't think our leaders give particularly "great speeches" either; you are giving them too much credit.
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 393
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 10:04 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OKAY, I'll name just one.

All the top SEMCOG leaders, and the physical proof is at semcog.org.

See the planned state money for new freeway expansions??? It's in the billions.

This is why Livonia lost bus service. You see, we can have good mass transit but it requires lots of hard work and much direct industry support and strong federal and state leadership. President Bush said on TV that he wants the states to pay for public bus service, but try and get this support from our leaders in Lansing and you will see why many people are starting to get turned off by the hype about the many benefits that mass transit can bring.

Our state leaders in Lansing should be looking at ways to attract more industry support to remove cars off the freeways by attending SEMCOG meetings and blasting the top leaders there for not doing enough to help out SMART and DDOT get more riders.

There is not one single transit system in the entire world that can or ever work without much compassion and a caring public that will help out by riding buses downtown to remove cars from crowded freeways and electing mass transit leaders.
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Sturge
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Username: Sturge

Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 11:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As gas prices continue to rise I think more will be looking into mass transit. When gas hit 3.10 I finally gave in and decided to take the bus. I was fortunate a downtown route went by my cross streets. I didn't have to drive my car all week!
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 1012
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 2:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trainman, what were you looking at? I couldn't find anything to support your arguments.
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Kslice
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Username: Kslice

Post Number: 28
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 6:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Busses still use gas and their fare will go up if gas is too high.

EXTEND THE DPM!!!
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 1243
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 10:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trainman above mentions that SMART does not get federal funds yet his website says they do??

"SMART and DDOT receive essential funding from federal and state levels of government at this time. The protection of our cities and existing mass transit from cuts in state level funding are needed."
http://savethefueltax.tripod.c om/exist.html#State


(Message edited by Detroitplanner on May 12, 2007)
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Sturge
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Username: Sturge

Post Number: 3
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 11:31 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Busses still use gas and their fare will go up if gas is too high."

Yes, but the cost of a 31 day pass will still be cheaper than riding in a car by yourself.
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 350
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 11:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trainman,

You did not answer my question at all. Please try again. I asked: "please name one 'prominent well-known transit advocate' who has said Michigan needs to shift fuel tax money away from bus service to build more roads."

You said: "All the top SEMCOG leaders".

The chairman of SEMCOG is the township supervisor of Ira Township in St. Clair County. Why would you think he was a transit advocate at all, much less a well-known one? Why do you think any of the "top SEMCOG leaders" are transit advocates?

They should be, I'm with you there; but they aren't. So try again, answer my question.

By the way, a fully loaded transit bus, depending on make and year, gets about seven miles to the gallon and carries, what, 40 passengers? I've never counted the seats. If that's so, then a fully loaded transit bus gets 280 passenger-miles per gallon. A half-empty transit bus gets 140 passenger-miles to the gallon. Most economy cars in metro Detroit carry a driver and no passengers and get 25 to 30 miles per gallon. So the price of fuel has a much greater impact on a typical Detroit motorist than a transit rider, even if the cost to ride was constantly updated to take fuel costs into account, which it isn't.
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Sturge
Member
Username: Sturge

Post Number: 8
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 4:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If I counted right there are about 34 seats on a SMART bus. Plus you can cram as many people as you can down the aisle standing. I know another bus broke down and we had to take on all their passengers in our near full bus. So they can take a lot of people if they have to.
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 395
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 8:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's very well known that the passage of the last SMART tax replaces property taxes from the tax on fuel. The idea of multiple tax mechanisms for mass transit is rejected. We do this for roads but not for mass transit.

If the SMART tax fails then the buses shut down and this is wrong.

SEMCOG claims to be mass transit advocates with their vision of speedlink but I don't want to mention names.


I do think thought that all transit advocates that have any amount of knowledge would indeed want both federal and state fuel tax support for mass transit but unfortunately, our local tax dollars are just not bringing in the money like what top SEMCOG officials have promised the public.

I filed a civil rights complaint against SEMCOG over this because this is discrimination against minorities, the low income and the handicapped. We are not seeing the increased revenues that our local tax dollars can bring in like in other areas. So, I want to help out the Transportation Riders United and the public as much as possible to do more with our limited tax dollars.

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