 
Retroit
Member
Username: Retroit
Post Number: 484
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 - 8:17 pm: |    |
Double Standard. |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 5681
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 - 8:20 pm: | |
The taxpayers aren't sacrificing anything. The taxpayers stand to gain by making these loans. These loans are a hell of a lot more secure than the $700 billion thrown at the Wall St. desk jockeys.
Geez, the auto companies even have property to secure a chunk of their loans. |
Thames
Member
Username: Thames
Post Number: 310
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 - 8:38 pm: | |
The taxpayers are taking a gamble and we will indeed sacrifice in the short term, hopefully it's a long term gain.
401don wrote: "Actually it was Nardelli who said he would accept $1 while Wagner said he had already agreed to a 50% salary cut and was not prepared to comment further today."
Ok, thanks. That's puts GM back in the iffy column and I'm leaning toward Chrysler. |
Old_guy
Member
Username: Old_guy
Post Number: 171
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 - 8:45 pm: | |
I thought it was a bit strange that the White House was serving quail and $500 a bottle wine several days ago at a conference that was scheduled to discuss how to save the world from a worldwide depression. I wouldn't expect them to serve Night train and hot dogs, but they could at least pretend to have some level of compassion. None of these people have a clue. It's too bad they're screwing everything up for the people they're representing. |
Dtwflyer
Member
Username: Dtwflyer
Post Number: 79
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 - 9:58 pm: | |
I can't believe that this corporate jet issue may be what puts the final nail in the coffin for the US Auto Industry, Detroit, the State of Michigan, and the US Economy.
So much blame to go around, it makes me sick. Congress has no clue, Executives are out of touch, and the general public has no clue either. Trust me, no one on here would want to ever be the Executive of an Automobile company. It is a thankless job, its 24/7, and you have to make a lot of tough decisions that impact a lot of people. Trust me, their calandars are jammed packed and they have little time to themselves.
People who paint the executives of big companies as a bunch of do-nothings, are flat out wrong. Their jobs are just different than the average Joe operating a stamping press.
I think everyone needs to understand where everyone is coming from and look at the big picture instead. This class warfare has got to end! |
Scooter2k7
Member
Username: Scooter2k7
Post Number: 161
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 - 10:48 pm: | |
SJ you could keep your mouth shut about things you do not know about. For one, I built my computer with parts made right here in the USA, my Tennessee built television works just as well as a Sony, and I do not own cell phone. Check some facts before you open your damn mouth! |
Rid0617
Member
Username: Rid0617
Post Number: 355
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 12:48 am: | |
While I lived in Atlanta, Nardelli did a real good job of destroying Home Depot. Gets a major golden parachute then gets another cushy job at Chrysler with another golden parachute when he leaves.
When I saw that video on ABC news I about hit the floor. I find it hard to have sympathy for an automaker that pays its execs millions, flies them on private jets and demands the workers who make the product they sell constantly give and give and give. I think they need to restructure to get a bailout and this time remember without the worker they wouldn't have a company. |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 2936
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 12:58 am: | |
private jets oh jeez, what about all the senators and congres who take private jets all the time.
so everyone hates people who are not line workers, well then why not just go BK an F everyone. If line workers could become execs they would.
I guess then that detroit will fail because some executives want to save time to plan on how to save a hundred billion dollar industry.
ow well, detroit is now gone because of a few measly whiners who complain about some people who make more than them. |
Eastsidedame
Member
Username: Eastsidedame
Post Number: 660
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 1:40 am: | |
A bonehead move. A PR nightmare. These are the big shots? No wonder they're in trouble.
Just hope Congress knows the difference between a loan and a bailout (a gift). |
Jerome81
Member
Username: Jerome81
Post Number: 1714
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 1:50 am: | |
The bank execs probably didn't fly, since it was just NYC to DC.
But I'm sure they drove their Kias down....
I'll chime in once them I'm done, because this is making my life miserable. I'm so furious over bailout and just dismissing American autos as a disposable industry (and the jobs they'll take with them). Each day that goes by I find 1) I become even more convinced that our elected officials are complete morons more concerned about putting on dog and pony shows for their (mostly) idiot constituents than actually making good, solid choices. If so, they wouldn't have started this dangerous slippery slope with $700B basically given to Hank Paulson to use as he chooses, with almost zero oversight, and no control. Hank takes it, saves all his friends in banking, then says the money is only for that. Congress authorizes $700 billions dollars without taking the time to think if we need it, if we can control it, or how it should be used?? Its only $700Billion right? Just get it out there! This great idea from the same folks that thought a $600 check would also save the economy.
2) Related to #1: This bailout was a BAD BAD BAD idea. Everyone wants a piece. The morons in control who have zero knowledge of the industries, much less the big economy (I don't know either) yet they get to decide who lives and who dies? That's not capitalism. Not even close.
3) I'm seriously getting worried, most especially if the automakers go down, that we could spend trillions (that we really don't have) and this economy could really go deep deep deep into the shitter. Why spend the money and get no results?
4) Capitalism is just a buzzword. I'm gonna bail out companies for their mistakes (any of them)?! HELL NO! That's not how it works. I want a check every week when AIG turns a profit in the future. Will I get it? Hell no. But the gov can take my money whenever they want and give it to AIG? The gov shouldn't be involved in running companies. Listening to career politicians tell auto executives and bankers how they should run their businesses makes me sick. The focus on the god damn jets instead of the meat of the issue is just more of them putting on a show for the idiot public more concerned with their $20,000 flight than the loss of millions of jobs and the pensions, health care, and taxes everyone loses. Those guys up there don't know shit about the auto industry (or any other industry) yet they control all the money and all the decisions? Hearing them talk about making Detroit build only hybrids and alternative vehicles (expensive) and no trucks while not considering gas is now $1.80 a gallon and if consumers want big trucks or reasonably priced sedans they aren't gonna buy expensive, compromised hybrids the gov forced Detroit to make. Might as well kill em now. Yet none of them are willing to make the decision to raise fuel taxes to drive demand for fuel efficient vehicles. I like to say low taxes, low spending, let the market decide. But if we as a country decide fuel economy is important, then suck it up and do it right. Again, just more dog and pony show (hey look, we're doing something!).
5) We're all gonna be paying significantly higher taxes in the future, so get prepared. And it won't be higher taxes towards tangible things (like maybe parks, or public centers, or arts, or schools). It will go towards these boners who ran their companies into the ground and to interest payments on the insane amounts of cash we flushed away. Pay a bunch, get nothing. We're gonna piss away trillions we don't have on companies that should have gone under, then the jobs are going to disappear anyway, and whats left will not pay as well. The gov clearly won't ever stop spending, so they'll just raise taxes to cover it. It will happen.
6) Most of the public is completely retarded. You get the government you deserve. Elect a clown like Kwame, get Kwame's results. Elect boners to congress, let them piss away your money and make decisions on subjects they know nothing about, then re-elect them and you'll get more of the same (perfect example is Ted Stevens nearly winning re-election despited being convicted of multiple felonies. WTF??!!). The public seems to think this is all great, that government handouts are just free money. We will get what we put in. And yet we keep putting the same idiots in.
Overall, I think we're seriously screwed. Detroit will be a ghost town (not just the city, the entire region and probably a lot of other towns and cities across the US) and the economy will just drag down from there. We've got no money, tax revenues will continue to go down, gov won't stop the spending. Where is it going to end?
Its scary. Scary enough if the gov didn't do anything. Even scarier now that we've put trillions on the table and then leave that bet up to idiots to decide what to do with it.
I'm furious. Just furious. "Leaders" are making it worse. Never in my life have I been this upset. Never have I felt so strongly that the gov should just keep its hands and minds out of every possible thing it can. They're spineless and more concerned with show than real, solid, leadership. Pick up the garbage. Keep the street lights on. National defense. Stick to the basics and stay out of everything else. Bad ideas on top of bad ideas, putting on a show, blaming everyone else. Its DISGUSTING.
So that's my rant. I want an American auto industry, and I'd hate to see the jobs go. But I don't know how we can sit here and say "you, you, you get to survive, you, you, and you sorry". Rewarding moronic decisions is straight up UN-American. Rewarding Wall Street and Detroit for boneheaded moves sends the wrong messages all over: Keep your winnings, and if you screw up, everyone else will save you. And throwing money at businesses that have been losing money for years isn't going to save them. Its just going to keep throwing good money after bad. Just stop. Please.
(Message edited by Jerome81 on November 20, 2008)
(Message edited by Jerome81 on November 20, 2008) |
Terridarlin
Member
Username: Terridarlin
Post Number: 91
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 5:40 am: | |
Irrespective of the public relations disaster in taking three corporate jets to DC, what's really troubling is the obscene waste of fuel. Are these the same executives in charge of energy efficient alternative fuel vehicles? Regardless of their net worth and corporate perks, is there anything wrong with conserving natural resources for the future? I feel naïve using my energy efficient bulbs and consolidating my trips to the store. |
Mauser765
Member
Username: Mauser765
Post Number: 3562
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 6:33 am: | |
The big 3 weasels asking for money is:
FAKE !
They dont want it and dont care. They want to reorganize and destroy the union. Gettlefinger is with them. |
Wally
Member
Username: Wally
Post Number: 737
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 8:13 am: | |
quote:Irrespective of the public relations disaster in taking three corporate jets to DC, what's really troubling is the obscene waste of fuel. Taken right out of Mr. Green himself Al Gore's playbook. |
Terridarlin
Member
Username: Terridarlin
Post Number: 92
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 8:46 am: | |
"Taken right out of Mr. Green himself Al Gore's playbook."
Just my opinion Wally: you're free to still use your corporate jet. |
Defendbrooklyn
Member
Username: Defendbrooklyn
Post Number: 1075
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 9:44 am: | |
I cant believe blue collar folks are buying this crap that its partially the unions fault. WOW, how can we be this ignorant. Blaming this on the union is insane. |
Cambrian
Member
Username: Cambrian
Post Number: 2025
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 10:09 am: | |
"I cant believe blue collar folks are buying this crap that its partially the unions fault..."
I agree, the notion that less job security and lower wages will send the masses flocking to dealerships is complete idiocy. |
Retroit
Member
Username: Retroit
Post Number: 485
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 10:36 am: | |
Excellent ranting, Jerome81! The one thing we need to keep in mind, however, is that the businesses in our free-market capitalistic America have to compete with foreign competitors who are greatly protected and aided by their governments. In other words, it is not just a competition between US and foreign companies, but US and foreign countries. So...however much we love our economic system, we will ultimately need to "compromise" it in order to survive as a country (at least until the rest of the world is willing to adopt our ways). |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1886
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 10:40 am: | |
The Japanese government already subsidizes their auto industry and puts large amounts of money into researching advanced technologies like batteries and power systems, while the US sits and argues about why the Big 3 are important. We are talking about energy independence, but if we let the industry that is doing a lot of the research in advanced power systems go down, we will forever be forced to pay foreign companies for power, much like we do now with foreign oil. A lot of people are too short-sighted to realize this. |
Sstashmoo
Member
Username: Sstashmoo
Post Number: 2922
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 10:47 am: | |
QUote: "I cant believe blue collar folks are buying this crap that its partially the unions fault..."
Quote: "I agree, the notion that less job security and lower wages will send the masses flocking to dealerships is complete idiocy."""
It will make the companies solvent, preserve jobs and drop vehicle prices to where most people can afford them. $40k for a pickup truck? They aren't selling? Oh big surprise. "Idiocy" is riding these companies right into the dirt. The UAW needs to suspend it's contracts today. If Gettlefinger has any sense at all... Ford almost dipped below $1 a few minutes ago. It was down to $1.02. |
Cambrian
Member
Username: Cambrian
Post Number: 2026
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 11:00 am: | |
Ever since Bush 1 / Clinton sold us the bill of goods on the benefits of NAFTA the one thing that has NEVER happened and Never will will be the lowering of a product's price. Wages and benefits and the general standard of living can only be lowered, but never prices, that would be un american. |
Defendbrooklyn
Member
Username: Defendbrooklyn
Post Number: 1076
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 11:02 am: | |
Forgive me if this idea was already posted...
What about the big three lobbying against progressive automotive legislation for years... Their first priority was to ensure their stockholders healthy dividends by continuing to sell SUV's and other large trucks… These sales generated the most profit in the short term, but at the same time proved to be a very destructive business decision. This myopic view of the gigantic auto industry caused the big three to lose a serious hold on other portions of the market. They never had any sort of plan on how to regain control of the small and mid-sized car portion of the market... In other words they put all their eggs in one broken basket.
Then to blame the union for their greed/bullshit business plan is crazy. It’s sad that if they do collapse these douche bag CEO’s will remain super rich… The millions of ordinary people who loose their jobs will be fighting tooth and nail against each-other for a small portion of “other” jobs… In other words, there needs to be some sort of serious consequences for these CEO’s. In my mind, when CEO’s drive companies this large into the ground and potentially ruin thousands of lives they are one step above Hitler on the pecking order…
As citizens of metro-Detroit we know where poor leadership gets us.
Bullets for all them! |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1891
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 11:04 am: | |
Hence why the Big 3 CEO's flying their own corporate jets has hurt what little chance there was left of any help. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 7961
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 11:31 am: | |
So far the lame duck session of congress says NO WAY for giving out the bailout money to the Big Three in a way their lifestyles are. So it's time for plan B, BEG THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION! |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1895
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 11:33 am: | |
That will go no where. The Bush administration has made it perfectly clear it could care less about the auto industry. Actually, it has made it perfectly clear it could care less about most things. |
Fareastsider
Member
Username: Fareastsider
Post Number: 1028
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 11:35 am: | |
GM is one of the largest companies on Earth and they have business all across the globe, of course they have a company jet. This is a non-issue to flame up emotions. |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 5688
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 11:38 am: | |
The only CEO that has been in his position for any length of time is Rick Wagoner. Mulally has done an awesome job in the two years he's been here - two years isn't even a full design cycle.
Nardelli? Who knows what's really going on at Chrysler. If they do have the electric cars they claim they could be back in the ballgame, by my guess is that no one around here trusts Cerberus very much.
I think a lot of the railing against the Big 3, especially from those in the transplant states - indicates the 3 are showing signs of a comeback and the transplants are starting to see a threat. Ford is winning the mpg battle now and preliminary tests show the Volt taking down the much-vaunted Prius the year it comes out. |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1897
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 11:41 am: | |
The big thing is the Big have to make it till 2010 when all this new stuff comes out. They were on track to changing things till the mortgage/credit market went way south. And there is so much dis-trust of the Big 3 that no one believes the comeback story. |
Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 3718
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 11:48 am: | |
I love Counterpunch:
Too Big to Fail?
The Jurassic Auto and Idea Park
By P. SAINATH
It's unfair to call the US auto industry dinosaurs, as some now do. It's certainly unfair to the dinosaurs. The 'Terrible Lizards' did not lay the basis for their own extinction or that of myriad other species. The original dinosaurs (who scientists now tell us were neither all that terrible nor lizards), were great examples of success and adaptation, good enough to rule the planet for 150 million years. The US auto industry is the opposite. It's not just that the Terrible Metal Lizards opposed fuel efficiency standards. Of course, they did. They also promoted gas-guzzling SUVs as a lifestyle must. They cranked out cars many did not want to buy. They wielded heavy clout in Congress, and were able to sponge off public funds in the name of saving jobs as they have yet again. Having received $ 25 billion earlier, their hats are in their outstretched hands again.
But that's the easy part. There's a lot more they did, as a major sector of industry - and as part of the larger corporate world of the United States. Over decades, they destroyed both existing and potential public transport. The 'American Dream' so far as the automobile went, was an imposed nightmare. In Detroit itself, you can see the skeletons of a once-alive transport system. All across the country, for decades from the 1920s, they bought up public transport systems and shut them down.
Trains were shifted from electric to diesel engines. Sometimes, they were simply done away with and replaced by buses and then cars. Together with Big Oil, Big Auto converted electric transit systems to fuel-based bus systems. In one estimate: In 1935, electric train engines outnumbered diesel train engines 7 to 1. "By 1970, diesel train engines outnumbered electric ones 100 to 1. And GM made 60 per cent of the diesel locomotives." The electric rail system in and around Los Angeles was almost erased.
Fostering the cult of the individual-owned automobile was a major goal. By 2001, that goal was achieved, beyond belief. Some 90 per cent of Americans drove to work by that year. The findings of the 2001 National Household Travel Survey are striking. Only 8 per cent households reported not having a vehicle available for regular use. The survey showed that "that daily travel in the United States totalled about 4 trillion miles, an average of 14,500 miles per person." Trips by transit and by school bus each made up just 2 per cent of daily trips taken in 2001. ...
more at counterpunch.com |
_sj_
Member
Username: _sj_
Post Number: 2808
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 12:17 pm: | |
quote:If you feel you don't agree with that, do share exactly how you think it works.
For each car sold they pay taxes, building costs, utility costs, employee costs, sales tax. If the plant or dealership is in the US that money stays here. Now, you are correct in that after all the bills are paid if there are any profits left they do return. It is wrong to assume that all the profits do. Just as when GM sells a car overseas.
quote:SJ you could keep your mouth shut about things you do not know about. For one, I built my computer with parts made right here in the USA, my Tennessee built television works just as well as a Sony, and I do not own cell phone. Check some facts before you open your damn mouth!
Ok internet tough guy, maybe we should add delusional as well. Because if you think everything in your house is American made with American parts then you are delusional.
quote:I think a lot of the railing against the Big 3, especially from those in the transplant states - indicates the 3 are showing signs of a comeback and the transplants are starting to see a threat.
I think they see their taxes continuing being used for projects they don't approve of as a threat. Always happens during rough economic times.
(Message edited by _sj_ on November 20, 2008) |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 859
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 1:25 pm: | |
"The Bush administration has made it perfectly clear it could care less about the auto industry."
You mean "couldn't care less". If you meant they could care less, it would imply that they care at all, which is not the case. |
Cambrian
Member
Username: Cambrian
Post Number: 2027
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 1:37 pm: | |
Bush would care a whole lot more about GM if it where in Baghdad. |
East_detroit
Member
Username: East_detroit
Post Number: 2293
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 1:54 pm: | |
Ford quality is now on par with Toyota and Honda. Read the latest Consumer Reports for a reference.
The new Ford Fusion Hybrid will get 6MPG more than the Toyota Camry Hybrid. The regular Fusion beats the regular Camry, as well. Reference the LA Auto Show for more details.
As for SJ, he is best in his element when Detroit suffers and he can gloat. If presented with good news, he will refute with opinions that have no reference.
Don't be an SJ, people. |
Eastsidedame
Member
Username: Eastsidedame
Post Number: 661
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 2:07 pm: | |
The Chinese love Buicks, and it's the draw of the American brand. How could we afford to throw that away?
Shanghai GM
(Message edited by eastsidedame on November 20, 2008) |
Gplimpton
Member
Username: Gplimpton
Post Number: 262
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 8:33 pm: | |
http://www.freep.com/article/2 0081121/NEWS06/81121057 |
Retroit
Member
Username: Retroit
Post Number: 513
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 8:38 pm: | |
And all Senators that vote against the loan should take an oath never to accept a ride on a lobbyists corporate jet. And they should cut off funding for Air Force One and all the other government aircraft. After all, our country is being "bailed-out" by loans (Treasury Bonds). |
Mustangford
Member
Username: Mustangford
Post Number: 12
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 9:42 pm: | |
It really amazes me on how people are all up in arms about them going in their jets. I wonder how the bankers got to DC when they got 1 Trillion Dollars? Then they went off to their big party to spend our money. Remember if the Big 3 go down so goes Michigan. Each of our jobs depends on the car companys. THey are worth saving |
Thames
Member
Username: Thames
Post Number: 316
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2008 - 9:47 am: | |
I know someone that is a Ford retiree that has flown on a corporate jet.
He said he flew with Padilla one day, to 3 plants in the US for meetings, and was back in Detroit in time to make an 8 pm meeting. (Yeah, I know, he's a Mister Fancy Pants  )
I can see why they employ their jets, but it sure didn't look good last week. Maybe they should have "jet pooled".
I suppose it would have looked worse if they flew commercial and ended up being late. |
Mauser765
Member
Username: Mauser765
Post Number: 3581
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2008 - 10:05 am: | |
FAKE !
This morning the REAL plan emerges: BANKRUPTCY.
They have no intentions of making good on legal contracts with employees. The big 3 weasels and Gettlefinger have all carefully orchestrated the phony strikes, as well as this phony plea for help. |
Retroit
Member
Username: Retroit
Post Number: 533
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2008 - 9:18 pm: | |
Source, Mauser765? |
Mwilbert
Member
Username: Mwilbert
Post Number: 452
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2008 - 9:32 pm: | |
If you are in a helicopter and the engine fails, do we say that crashing is the plan? It is just what happens. Maybe the plan is to get into some kind of crash position. GMs engine is out. It is plummeting toward the earth. Yes, it is probably going to crash. GM may be getting ready for the impact. But I'm not sure I would call it a plan.
I think their plan is to try to restart the engine before the crash. It just doesn't look like that is going to work. |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 872
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2008 - 11:46 pm: | |
Robert Reich asks why we're bailing out Citigroup and not GM. Two words - Henry Paulson. He's protecting his buddies on Wall Street while letting Main Street and households take a beating.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsme mo.com/2008/11/22/why_were_res cuing_wall_street/ |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 7974
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 10:57 am: | |
The lame duck session of the Congress might give it some thought of giving the bailout money to the Big Three if they could show them on paper of how are they going to use the bailout money. Plus The Big Three may have to ask the UAW to eliminate the so-called "jobs bank" and to reduce to the luxurious spending and investing of goods and services from purchasing their private jets to reducing their bonuses before December 2nd. |
Civilprotectionunit4346
Member
Username: Civilprotectionunit4346
Post Number: 769
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 24, 2008 - 11:02 pm: | |
I understand alot of people here are ticked off about the AIG bailout & now the up and coming Citibank bailout.
That's our lovely government for you. I work for one of the Big 3. I work for OnStar and ive been seeing a downward spiral at work. Alot of folks have been canceling there service & another thing ive seen is alot of newer models running into more mechanical problems.
One reason the Big 3 are getting hurt is the big wigs have run the company rampant. They saw & knew how gas prices where on a upward trend and thats one thing that has hurt them is they didn't get on the bandwagon to make for vehicles that would be more efficient.
Instead of focusing on making the new Camaro and the new ZR-1 Corvette and lets not just point the blame at GM....Chrysler and their new challenger and Ford as well. They should have focused on cars that would get better mileage.
Ive talked about this before and the government even asked them that question about why didn't they focus on making more fuel efficient vehicles.
Another thing that irked me was when I found out how much japanese ceo's, and people higher in the food chain get paid....way less then our american counterparts.
They've have gotten so accustomed to living high on the hog & now it's turning around and biting them where it hurts.
You know what folks.....you reap what you sow!!! |
Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 3795
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 1:12 pm: | |
A Radical Alternative
Don't Bail Them Out, Take Them Over
By STANLEY HELLER
Frank Hammer and Dan LaBotz are absolutely right that the attempt by the powers that be to destroy the auto unions is a defining moment for labor just like the PATCO fight in the ‘80s. Labor has to stop cheerleading for their bosses plans, come up with their own, unite with their natural allies and come out into the streets swinging. It should not wait to see what the Obama Administration has in store for it. That the word of the future appointments of Geithner and Summers was joyfully received by the stock market is no good news to us.
Instead of being “realistic” and supporting a bail-out with drastic new cuts in worker pay and benefits, we should set out to reorganize the auto industry from top to bottom as public enterprise. To do it labor needs to join up with the forces that have in recent years turned out people at demonstrations in the hundreds of thousands, the anti-war movement, the immigrants rights movement and the black liberation movement. And labor needs to get out in the streets as soon as possible.
Here’s a modest nine-point plan for the industry:
1. GM., Ford and Chrysler would be merged into one company to be run as a car/bus/transportation business
2. Its cars would come with bumper to bumper warranties of 10 years (up from three years now) and become instantly competitive.
3. The government would provide high quality health care for all auto workers and auto worker retirees. It would be a model program, the prototype for single payer for everyone.
4. For at least a year there would be no layoffs of auto workers. Spread the work around. Let workers who are not producing cars use work time to figure out how to how to make better cars and vehicles. Send some of them full time to schools specializing in research and development.
5. Dump the current Boards of Directors and create a new one, 40% elected by production and white collar workers, another 20% chosen by environmental and consumer organizations, the rest chosen by the government. The company books would be open to the public.
6. Product lines would be reduced especially the macho gas guzzlers. The Hummer would be allowed to sink into the mud. The wasteful practice of making a new model each year would be ended. High mpg and pollution standards would be mandated.
7. The company would figure out ways to make buses that people would be enjoy taking, comfortable and secure with plenty of space for packages. The buses would be networked with smaller public vehicles, Segways, and any number of other transport options to bring people to and from their homes to bus routes.
8. Convert the excess plants in the auto parts sector to useful green jobs. As Diane Feely has pointed out axle plants can be converted to produce wind turbines, a product not currently made in the United States
9. Put a $200,000 cap on executive salaries. There are plenty of people who would work for that piddling salary if the current honchos can’t live on that amount.
This would no doubt require a lot of money, much more than then $25 billion being asked for currently. The US has it. It guarantees $290 billion of toxic Citibank assets at the drop of a hat. The next day it commits $600 billion to buying the debt issued by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. It spends half a trillion a year on current and future costs of its Iraq-Afghanistan imperial wars. If it can afford all that, it can certainly pay to recreate an industry that makes something people actually use.
More at http://www.counterpunch.com/he ller11262008.html |
Otter
Member
Username: Otter
Post Number: 418
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 1:20 pm: | |
I sometimes enjoy articles on Counterpunch, but I hardly know where to begin with this one. Good grief.
O. |
Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 3796
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 1:28 pm: | |
I just enjoy that there are many ideas being thrown around. You know what they say: If everybody is in agreement, somebody's not thinkin'. |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 5760
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 1:53 pm: | |
I wonder if the columnist would advocate that for all of the financial entities, too. I suspect not. |
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