 
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 2164
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 5:26 am: |    |
Bing is confusing the heck out me.
He's a good government guy, a transparency advocate and then his Campaign Manager is Charles Beckham. WTF is that? Mr. Vista Sludge hauling your ass off to jail. A guy who would rather do Federal time than give up his boss, Coleman Young. That's as transparent as a brick wall.
Now, is seems that Jewel Ware's husband, Jesse Long-Bey is working on Bing's campaign too.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20081113/M ETRO/811130407
Jesse owns a public relations firm
http://jandjpr.com/aboutus.htm l
which operates out of a MailBoxes Etc on East Jefferson. He runs sort of a eastside newsletter thing, but it's main purpose is a propaganda tool for his wife Jewel Ware.
For those who don't remember, Jewel Ware is the Chairwoman of the Wayne County Commission who allegedly hired ghost employees on the taxpayers dime. In reality they were working at a resort Jesse Long-Bey owns up in Idyllwild.
So why is Bing hangin around with such coconuts?
As far as working for free. It's a good idea and send the right message. If Bing were to go to Lansing or Washington and ask for help, he could point to himself as making sacrifices.
So Bing has done some great things, has a great image, but hangs around with knuckleheads. meh |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 9294
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 9:10 am: | |
quote:So Bing has done some great things, has a great image, but hangs around with knuckleheads. meh
By the way, "meh" is now a word.
http://entertainment.timesonli ne.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertai nment/books/article5168029.ece |
Zulu_warrior
Member
Username: Zulu_warrior
Post Number: 3564
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 9:21 am: | |
Cman710
Zulu, I think that is part of the problem that Bing wants to fix. Most of the problems you cite are bureaucratic, and could be easily handled
Fnemecek
If anyone within City government has a problem with the Mayor working without a salary, or doesn't want to accommodate such an offer, then shame on them.
The Elected Officials Compensation Board can set his salary at $0.
The City Council can accept the donation of his salary and use to hire 4 more police officers.
The problem here is two fold:
1) The Mayor doesnt control the Election Compensation Commission nor the payments to it. It doesnt come from the general fund. They determine the salary.
Let me remind you that Kwame Kilpatrick suggested that he would take a 10% cut on his salary, which never materialized. What the mayor does control is wether he cashes his check.
2)Should he not cash his check, this money sitting in the fund cannot be immediately appropriated over. Just to be used by police, it will have to done in the next cycle of appropriations (once a year) as a surplus or as a budget revision, where it must go before council and be justified.
The larger problem here, gentlemen, is that it is a good idea on Bing's part to want to do this, but he just doesnt understand what's involved.
He doesnt know that he doesnt know, and that's a dangerous thing.
He is not being advised properly on these matters and it makes him seem unprepared for this position. He has the confidence and stature yes, but no expereince in government and no grasp of the facts surrounding its management-and that is frightening. |
Downtown_lady
Member
Username: Downtown_lady
Post Number: 433
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 9:44 am: | |
quote:he just doesnt understand what's involved
Yeah, I suspect the mayor could make that happen if he wanted it to happen, regardless of what's involved.
quote:Let me remind you that Kwame Kilpatrick suggested that he would take a 10% cut on his salary, which never materialized.
So is that the fault of the bureaucracy or the fact that Kwame talks a bunch of sh*t that he never delivers on? I'm sure Kwame worked REALLY hard to make that happen. |
Downtown_lady
Member
Username: Downtown_lady
Post Number: 434
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 9:50 am: | |
Zulu, how can you point to any aspect of this offer by Bing as "dangerous" and "frightening"? That makes no sense to me.
I know that historically on this board you've been against Bing, but to twist Bing's offer in the way that you are seems like you're grasping at straws.
Of course you're entitled to your opinion and preference of candidate as we all are, but it just seems like if you want to criticize Bing you need to come up with something of more substance.
Bing not knowing every single detail of the bureaucratic process does not to me seem "dangerous" and "frightening". |
Oliverdouglas
Member
Username: Oliverdouglas
Post Number: 191
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 9:53 am: | |
Zulu:
How do you know he doesn't know? The fact that he didn't lay out the specifics in a sound bite or press release is not at all surprising. |
Zulu_warrior
Member
Username: Zulu_warrior
Post Number: 3565
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 10:12 am: | |
My quote, Downtown Lady, was this:
The larger problem here, gentlemen, is that it is a good idea on Bing's part to want to do this, but he just doesnt understand what's involved.
He doesnt know that he doesnt know, and that's a dangerous thing.
I didnt say that he was dangereous and frightening, or that his idea was dangereous and frightenening. I said that his lack of proper advice was.
Do not parse my words here. I dont grasp at straws.
Since you are happily on his team, you need to tell him directly that his advisers are not giving him the best advice and need to check the facts before he goes to the press with such statements. It makes him seem a political neophyte and we expect better of him, if he is to be Detroit's next leader.
We generally know that he will require alot of on the job training to run the city, due to his lack of direct experience in city government, but he can be better prepared.
That means people like you who are admmittely close to him must tell him these things so that he will know. |
Downtown_lady
Member
Username: Downtown_lady
Post Number: 436
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 11:06 am: | |
I'm not "on his team" -- I have my preference of candidate just like you do.
I am not parsing your words. I read and understood your words in their entirety, in context and I understand everything you're saying.
quote:I didnt say that he was dangereous and frightening, or that his idea was dangereous and frightenening.
I never said that you said that. I said "how can you point to any aspect of this offer by Bing as dangerous and frightening" and my statement stands.
"We expect better of him"
"We generally know that he will require"
Who is the "we" for whom you are apparently spokesman?
quote:people like you...must tell him these things so that he will know.
Yeah, I don't think Dave needs me to tell him anything. I'm pretty sure he's doing fine on his own, but thanks for the suggestion. |
Sumas
Member
Username: Sumas
Post Number: 379
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 12:20 pm: | |
I am extremely pleased that we have such a nice array of candidates for mayor with the exception of McFail and Coleman A. Jr. The big problem now is city council. It is a sad day when Kwame Kenyatta looks like the brains there. The new mayor will have to work with this lame council. Politicians certainly can't solve all evils indemic to Detroit. But for God's sake do they have to add to our problems? |
Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek
Post Number: 2967
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 3:05 pm: | |
quote:The larger problem here, gentlemen, is that it is a good idea on Bing's part to want to do this, but he just doesn't understand what's involved.
He doesn't know that he doesn't know, and that's a dangerous thing.
You're assuming that he doesn't know the process. Quite frankly, there's no basis for said assumption.
The Mayor can cut his salary by either a) convincing the Executive Compensation Commission for reduce it or b) convincing the City Council to allow him to donate his paycheck back to the City as using the proceeds to hire more police officers.
Political candidates rarely go into the details of how they're going to accomplish their objectives, unless specifically pressed on the point. For you to assume that Mr. Bing was ignorant because he didn't spell out the two possible ways in which he could accomplish his objective in his statement is simply uncalled for.
quote:It makes him seem a political neophyte and we expect better of him, if he is to be Detroit's next leader.
We generally know that he will require a lot of on the job training to run the city, due to his lack of direct experience in city government, but he can be better prepared.
Oh, really. From the looks of things, it would seem that Mr. Bing won't need anywhere near as much "on the job training" as some of the other candidates.
He spelled out a workable plan to hire 4 new police officers. That might not sound like a lot, but it means that he's accomplished more in that one interview someone like Ken Cockrel, Jr. has accomplished in 13 years of elective office. |
Sg9018
Member
Username: Sg9018
Post Number: 301
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 3:34 pm: | |
In today's Free Press,
Dave Bing's offer to work free not seen as a plus
Other candidates dismiss his promise
http://www.freep.com/article/2 0081127/NEWS05/811270339
The Free Press talked to Ken Cockrel Jr,Warren Evans,Nicholas Hood III,Freman Hendrix,Coleman Young II and Sharon McPhail |
Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 6459
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 10:29 pm: | |
I was waiting to see their reaction, and they are generally right. It's a symbolic gimmick, and one that he can do because of his wealth. It can't be a game-changer on its own, but he can build on the gesture with presenting sound policy plans. |
Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek
Post Number: 2968
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 10:35 pm: | |
From Ken Cockrel's comments in the article above:
quote:If Mr. Bing is aware of any conflicts that any candidate has, the mayor encourages him to disclose that," Cockrel said through his spokesman Daniel Cherrin.
Unbelievable.
The whole point of a financial disclosure is to bring to light any potential conflicts of interest that a candidate might have. If a candidate isn't willing to disclose something, it's difficult to determine whether or not he has any such conflicts.
He is essentially saying, "If you can prove that I'm guilty of something, maybe I'll confess." Mr. Cockrel's arrogance is exceeded only by his laziness. |
Zulu_warrior
Member
Username: Zulu_warrior
Post Number: 3566
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 12:34 am: | |
And thus, to my detractors on this thread, the evidence is lain bare....
By putting himself out there with his statement, Bing has let himself be portrayed as if he were doing a gimmick.
My fear exactly.
I dont doubt, as I have previously said, that he is sincere in his desire not to take a salary and to donate it to the police. It is quite admirable.
But by not laying out his specifics around the how of it, he has created a false sense of showmanship, and that veil is easily pierced.
If Bing has great leadership ability, then he should be able to attract talent that would not leave him so vulnerable. He is not getting top quality advice, and this episode shows it.
Whether you support him or not, his political savvy must be at another level in order for him to build momenteum.
As it is, many will equivocate this to McCain's famous "suspend the campaign move", whether it was meant as a gimmick or not.
I stand by my statement: He can be better prepared. |
Firstandten
Member
Username: Firstandten
Post Number: 532
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 1:33 am: | |
Of course Bing will need to show a plan for solving Detroit's many problems. There is nothing wrong with saying I'll take a $1.00 salary. Whether its put back into the general fund or used to hire police or firemen, it doesn't matter.
Bing can go a step further and say he will ride the bus to work and back.
You don't run your campaign on something like this but it sends a signal that you are serious about turning things around and it gives Bing who is not a politician but a businessman credibility among the residents that he is working for them.
The residents of NYC appreciated that act of token symbolism, and I believe the residents of Detroit will take it in the same way. |
Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 6462
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 1:54 am: | |
Speaking of taking the bus, hasn't Nicholas Hood taken his campaign on the road? Or, am I thinking of someone else. I remember reading a few days ago that one of the candidates is campaigning on DDOT buses until the special election. |
Jacqueline
Member
Username: Jacqueline
Post Number: 9
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 10:18 am: | |
Bing's campaign manager is Charlie Beckham who was jailed on racketeering charges when he worked in the water department under Coleman A. Young. Beckham was in Kilpatrick's administration first as Director of Parks and Recreation, then Director of the General Services Administration and, lastly, Director of PLD. In my opinion, Bing made a poor choice and, if elected, he will probably hire Beckham in in a prominent position. Some people say Beckham has paid his debt to society, but has he paid his debt to the City of Detroit? I wasn't sure whether to vote for Bing or Hendrix, but Bing's association with Beckham has finalized by decision. My vote goes to Hendrix. |
Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek
Post Number: 2969
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 12:13 pm: | |
quote:And thus, to my detractors on this thread, the evidence is lain bare....
Yes, the evidence is quite clear. Dave Bing is much more specific about what he will do if elected than any other candidate for mayor.
Unfortunately, rather than putting forward their own plans - or in the case of our interim mayor, actually doing something - the other candidates are all sitting on the sidelines; criticizing Mr. Bing for putting forward a plan.
quote:If Bing has great leadership ability, then he should be able to attract talent that would not leave him so vulnerable. He is not getting top quality advice, and this episode shows it.
Okay - I have to laugh at this one.
Sen. Hilary Rodham Clinton used to say almost the exact same thing about Sen. Barack Obama. She didn't bother offering her own plan for moving the country forward and she did very little with her own position in the U.S. Senate.
As for how effective that tactic is, I simply remind you which one of them went on to win the election.
quote:Bing's campaign manager is Charlie Beckham who was jailed on racketeering charges when he worked in the water department under Coleman A. Young.
Charlie Beckham's crimes are more than 20 years old. Since his release from prison, Mr. Beckham has been nothing if not a model citizen. The man hasn't had so much as an overdue library book on his record.
What's worse? A candidate who hires a man who was a felon 20 years ago? Or a series of candidates who haven't put forward their own plan for making Detroit better? |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 7567
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 2:18 pm: | |
Geeze Zulu, you are reading way more into his zero salary request than most of us here.
Who cares about what all is involved in his getting a zero salary.
Do you work for city government? Just because some city employees have to do something a little differently (God forbid)... to handle his zero salary request.... what you call dangerous and frightening... is what many of us on this forum call "going thru RED TAPE"!!
And yes... in Detroit that is dangerous and frightening!!  |
Ocean2026
Member
Username: Ocean2026
Post Number: 24
Registered: 11-2008
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 3:02 pm: | |
Glstock is correct - Zulu get your head out of your ...
Bing can find a way to donate the money back - he's a lot more clever than you.
I don't live in Detroit but from an outsider's perspective having a name like that would add luster to a city that badly needs it.
As for the sitting mayor who seems to already have made errors with his finances the Detroit Campaign slogan ought to be
S--- My (name of incumbent) LOL!
(Message edited by ocean2026 on November 28, 2008) |
Jacqueline
Member
Username: Jacqueline
Post Number: 12
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 5:31 pm: | |
So Fnemecek, should we reelect Kilpatrick for Mayor in 10 years? |
Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek
Post Number: 2970
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 7:50 pm: | |
First, it's 20 years. Not 10.
As for whether or not we should eventually return Kwame Kilpatrick to office that depends on a) what he does in the next 20 years, b) what kinds of plans he put forward when/if he runs and c) who else is running.
If he runs in 2028 and, God forbid, is the only person with any kind of a specific plan to improve the lives of everyday Detroiters then I think we'd be foolish not to consider him. |
Zulu_warrior
Member
Username: Zulu_warrior
Post Number: 3567
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 8:51 pm: | |
Unfortunately for Gistock, Fremeneck and Ocean2026, my perspective on this is unfettered and quite correct.
You seek change in Detroit, as most of us do, but you fail to exercise logic in your desire to bring this change.
While Bing may yet be mayor, he will have to be more thorough and diligent in his actions in order to be elected.
It is illogical to propose ideas that have major logistical hurdles, without first getting a sense of their feasibility.
I feel strongly that there are alot of challeneges he faces in getting elected already- he doesnt need to add to them with non-subtantive policy stunts.
A) He is has been an intermittent Detroit resident over the years; the electorate is not comfortable with this.
B) He has not been active with the Democratic Party and many think he is a Republican: many are not happy with this, regardless of the non-partisan title attached with the mayor's seat.
C) He has never been in government and his choices so far of advisers are staples in the Young and Kilpatrick administrations: many have reservations about this
D) Some people believe he is trying to buy this election because he has accumulated wealth: many are not comfortable with this as well.
E) Many voters 46-34 are not really familiar with Bing when he was a household sports figure; a significant voting block within the city of Detroit.
He should be addressing tax policy and ways to fix the city's structural deficit, as opposed to insignificant matters like his salary. Job creation, business incentives, and city services are things that will make his candidacy more appealing.
For those of you who are not appeased by view, I welcome your debate. i Have been a longtime voice on this board, and in the area of Detroit Politics, people have learned to listen to what truth I have borne on this forum.
Heed my words:
Bing may be the best thing for Detroit, but he wont get there running a shoddy campaign. My original post stated that he should have checked the facts on this, before he stepped out their. A good number of news reporters already feel that he doesnt truly understand how the city government works- Bing needs to change this appearance and not exacerbate it. The more it continues, the worse his chances.
New York is not Detroit, and the comparisons to Bloomberg have limitations, especially around the economy and the impact of unionism on the electorate.
He still has a lot of opportunity in his campaign, but he must show more diligence and more preparedness if he is to be successful in Detroit Mayoral election. |
Ocean2026
Member
Username: Ocean2026
Post Number: 28
Registered: 11-2008
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 10:29 pm: | |
Whoa Zulu - Impressive response! I was assuming you were a lightweight paying way too much attention to the salary thing but you have a valid and informed perspective.
Mine is different - way different. I am a school board member, president of an area bar association and former elected DA --- living in ------ SOUTH TEXAS! I love Detroit's old buildings and history and think it would make a great summer home.
Some of your points don't matter to me.
Intermittent resident- One learns more by traveling and seeing other places and having different experiences.
Not active in the Dem Party ( probably important in Detroit) but I don't like parties - I voted for Obama because I voted for the person I wanted to be President not the Dem Party.
D. What advantage would there be in buying an election -what do you thing Bing wants?
You are correct that he should be addressing Detroit's tax policy - Taxing abandoned buildings does nothing but contribute to their decay. Having a taxing entity that doesn't even post free info on its website ( everywhere else does even Buffalo, Pitt, Cincy and all big cities in Texas) is also a smack in the face to potential investors. MY response is WILL BING NOT address this? Is he talking about no salary INSTEAD of your issues or will he get to them at the right time?
You also are correct that he wont win with a shoddy campaign.
I disagree with many are not familiar with Bing because they weren't around during his great years. Detroit hasn't always been a powerhouse team and people remember the best years. I grew up way after Duke Snider and Jackie Robinson, yet as a Dodger fan I am totally familar with them. I am not in Detroit but I would guess many times a year local broadcasts yearn back to Detroit's best days. I would also venture that replays of those games have been watched by just about every basketball fan. Hell I've watched them from Texas because being an IU Law grad I love seeing Thomas play.
Now let me give you MY perspective as an outsider who wants the best for Detroit as a possible part time home.
Watching your recent mayor on tv for crime and corruption has given the national public as bad a view of Detroit as the crime statistics. Detroit can't fix itself it needs help and the image of your last mayor would scare anyone from investing- sadly it also promotes the worst racial stereotypes.
Dave Bing is someone the rest of the country can relate to ( Isiah Thomas as well although his Knicks years recently hurt him) He inspires confidence and Detroit needs that.
Anyway Zulu my apologies for assuming you didn't have your s--- together.
By the way who are you supporting for Mayor? |
Downtown_lady
Member
Username: Downtown_lady
Post Number: 437
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 1:36 am: | |
Zulu:
quote:It is illogical to propose ideas that have major logistical hurdles
Are you serious? You consider what is basically red tape to be a "major logistical hurdle"? Um, OK.
quote:...the electorate is not comfortable with this
quote:...many are not happy with this
quote:...many have reservations about this
quote:...many are not comfortable with this as well
Thank you for the polling data Mr. Zogby. From the certainty of your statements, you must have spent weeks polling the electorate. Could you provide a link to all of your polling data? I find it fascinating!
quote:many think he is a Republican
Zulu, will you quit making sh*t up? You cannot make him a Republican just by saying he is seven thousand times. Furthermore, if "many think he is a Republican", maybe many need to do some research.
quote:people have learned to listen to what truth I have borne on this forum.
And some people, uh, not so much.
quote:A good number of news reporters already feel that he doesnt truly understand how the city government works
Did they discuss this with you at the last Reporters Club meeting? See, 'cause when I went to the October meeting, a good number of news reporters told me that Dave is just marvelous.
Ocean, don't be so quick to apologize. Seriously. |
Ocean2026
Member
Username: Ocean2026
Post Number: 31
Registered: 11-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 9:24 am: | |
Downtown lady- I'm so used to dealing with total fools on local newspaper sites and city-data.com (a good site though) that I was surprised that Zulu could at least somewhat defend his earlier comments. I also believe that unlike many, he wasn't there just to vent or to push his personal issues.
I still disagree with some of his points and listed them, however I apologized for my "get your head out of your a.." quip which wasn't deserved. |
Jacqueline
Member
Username: Jacqueline
Post Number: 13
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:24 am: | |
What is an energy-focused youth jobs program ? • Restructuring the police department to maximize response time - Does he intend to hire more police or continue to work with what is there? Is he going to bring back the preceints (sp)? How does he plan to pay down the City’s debt? What are his plans to revitalize the neighborhoods (and not one at a time like Kilpatrick was doing). What is his approach to education? I see no specifics. I have checked his website, and it is lacking in information. http://www.bingformayor.com.
I do not believe that any felon should be put in a position of authority in government, even if his/her crime was committed 10 – 20 years ago. Also, any ties to the Kilpatrick administration will be a hindrance to Bing’s election. I believe Detroiters are looking for honesty in government and, after the Kilpatrick fiasco, will not only be looking at Bing, but the people around him. Christine Beatty’s trial is coming up in early 2009 and the whole mess will be replayed. And as the primary is in February, it will be fresh in everyone’s mind. Bing needs to rethink who he wants around him. |
Downtown_lady
Member
Username: Downtown_lady
Post Number: 438
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 12:56 pm: | |
Sorry, Ocean -- I didn't mean any offense towards you. By the way, welcome to the forum. I think you living in Texas but envisioning Detroit as a potential location for a summer home is beyond cool. We would be happy to have you, even if it's just for a visit. |
Zulu_warrior
Member
Username: Zulu_warrior
Post Number: 3568
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 10:16 pm: | |
Thank you for your intellectual honesty Ocean2026...
There are those here who take my statements as anti-Bing i.e. I dont want him as mayor....
The truth of the matter is that he may yet be a fabulous one mayor and I like as a contestant in the race, but I dont think it to be a slam dunk for most Detroiters, no pun intended.
I want to see him run a better campaign, and I think he has room for improvement. Factually backed ideas that demonstrate his knowledge of governance are a start.
Interesting you brought up the Isaiah peice, becaue many people in their mid 30's-40's know Bing as being the older Zeke, as they never saw him play. Its a start for some, but not enough to be a closer for most.
To Downtown Lady: I dont wish to engage in a running battle with you over minor things. We may have a disagreement, but I will not be disagreeable with you.
I believe Bing needs to run a better campaign as I have said. Maybe he will take my advice, may be he wont.
The information that I have access to is priveledged and confidential in some cases, and, at other times, is just my opinion.
But I will disclose that I am a Democrat, card carrying and all, and I would prefer to see a Democrat in the Mayor's office. If Bing fits that measure, them let him prove it to me and anyone else to whom it matters.
I dont have a candidate yet, I am waiting for more information from the candidates. Sometime in January, I will be more certain. |
Jmil
Member
Username: Jmil
Post Number: 1668
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 8:58 am: | |
Zulu, nice work. Guess the egotist saw the Zulu and made assumptions. If they didn't before, now they see the Warrior.
Personally, I couldn't careless about Bing and his salary requirements. As I have stated before no matter who wins, in the short term (hopefully) there won't be much anyone can do about increasing revenue, fixing the budget or job creation. For me campaigning on those issues is mere rhetoric.
Any candidate that is running on the I'm not Kilpatrick and I'm full of integrity is wasting the citizens time. After all that should be a given.
Any candidate whose first priority is not major reduction in crime in the city is not worthy of sitting in the Mayors seat. Too many people who either live in or have visited the city recently have been affected by crime in some way. Be it Car theft/break ins. Home invasion, ransacking of vacant homes and arson. Murder, shootings, hit and runs, fighting. Robbing and stealing, even from churches and schools. Drugs and prostitution. gangs, juvenile crimes, graffiti and defacing property. The city is infested with crime. It is rampant and out of control.
The next Mayor MUST make crime a priority. I know times are hard for my brothers and sisters. I have heard their reasonings, but it is time for a change.
CRIME - FIX IT - NOW!!!
Thats the campaign slogan I'm looking for. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 7568
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 1:44 pm: | |
Zulu,
My only point was about Bing's zero pay proposal. Many of the other points you make, I can pretty much agree with.
I personally would support Hendrix (as I did the last election). In the election some will try to make Bing appear to be a suburban interloper who moved to Detroit only to run for mayor. That notion still plays well among many Detroiters.
Some will also question if he is black enough. That issue came up during the Archer years, and unfortunately resurfaced as an issue when Hendrix ran for mayor last time.
I don't think that the issue about Charlie Beckham is as big a deal for Detroit's electorate, as it is on this forum or in the media.
Also, I agree with Jmil... for Detroit, the crime issue is #1. |
Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek
Post Number: 2971
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 3:31 pm: | |
quote:Unfortunately for Gistock, Fremeneck and Ocean2026, my perspective on this is unfettered and quite correct.
By "unfettered and quite correct", you obviously mean "pulled out of your butt".
You have criticized Dave Bing for not putting enough detail into his plans even though he has put forth more detail than any other candidate. In spite of this, you haven't criticized any of those candidates.
Mr. Bing isn't perfect. His plan to work for free and use the savings to hire more police would only generate 4 new officers. However, while he is at 4, everyone else is at 0. |
Zulu_warrior
Member
Username: Zulu_warrior
Post Number: 3569
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 8:04 pm: | |
Fremeneck- this thread is about Bing and his plans, thats why you see a critique of his actions here.
If you want something on another candidate, open another thread.
And I do mean "unfettered". |
Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek
Post Number: 2972
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 11:35 am: | |
Zulu:
There's no need for me to open another thread on another candidate. There are already threads on Sharon McPhail and Ken Cockrel; both are devoid of any criticism by you of said candidates.
In spite of that, you come onto this thread and criticize David Bing for not being prepared when he has, in fact, offered the most detailed plan to improve the lives of every day Detroiters of any of the candidates.
There is a thing in this world called a "dictionary". Please learn how to use one.
The word "unfettered" is not a synonym for "political hack". |
Zulu_warrior
Member
Username: Zulu_warrior
Post Number: 3570
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 12:21 am: | |
My mind is still unchanged. Bing has yet to demonstrate preparedness to me.
"In spite of that, you come onto this thread and criticize David Bing for not being prepared when he has, in fact, offered the most detailed plan to improve the lives of every day Detroiters of any of the candidates."
What most detailed plan to improve the lives of every day Detroiters?
What is his Tax Policy? What is his priority for working families? Does he plan to shrink the size of government? How about service delivery...he says it needs to be better...How?
What specific economic development proposals does he have that are not already on the drawing board? Where will his emphasis be on neighborhoods? street lighting? Road maintenence? What plans?
To not take his salary is not a panacea, nor is it close to one. In fact it doesnt scratch the surface. It is dishonest to suggest so.
You sing his praises as if he cannot be critized, but it is the duty of every citizen in this country to scrutinize our leaders. I am certain he can withstand it. Let him stand up and answer these questions. We dont have Kings in America, there is no divine right to leadership through heritage here. Bing will win if and only if he provides answers to the people, and not his fan club.
I have plenty of critique for all of the candidates...and I will get to that right soon.
Perhaps,Fnemecek, since you are so sensitive to Bing's critisisms, that you can provide some answers here.
Right now you are blinded by your passions and loyalities, now lets see some logic.
(Message edited by Zulu Warrior on December 02, 2008) |
Jacqueline
Member
Username: Jacqueline
Post Number: 14
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 10:39 am: | |
Well said Zulu. |
Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek
Post Number: 2974
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 2:53 pm: | |
Ah, the political hack is asking questions. Although, he still isn't answering any.
I'll answer his first, before chastising him some more.
quote:What most detailed plan to improve the lives of every day Detroiters?
It's nice to see you're paying attention. Dave Bing proposed to work for free and use his salary to hire 4 new police officers.
That's incredibly small, because Detroit needs more than 2,000 new officers in order to bring us on par with national standards. However, it's the best offer any of the candidates have given us.
quote:What is his Tax Policy? What is his priority for working families? Does he plan to shrink the size of government? How about service delivery...he says it needs to be better...How?
I don't know. He hasn't specified that. Of course, neither have any of the other candidates.
quote:What specific economic development proposals does he have that are not already on the drawing board? Where will his emphasis be on neighborhoods? street lighting? Road maintenance? What plans?
I don't know. He hasn't specified that. Of course, neither have any of the other candidates.
quote:To not take his salary is not a panacea, nor is it close to one. In fact it doesnt scratch the surface. It is dishonest to suggest so.
I never once said it was a panacea. You're a liar for suggesting that I ever did.
All that I've ever said that it's the best proposal any of the candidates have given us.
quote:You sing his praises as if he cannot be criticized, but it is the duty of every citizen in this country to scrutinize our leaders.
You're both a political hack and a liar. The only praise I've ever given Mr. Bing is the fact that he has offered the most specific plan of any of the mayoral candidates.
I never said that Mr. Bing - or anyone else - cannot be criticized. I never said anything even remotely close to that.
You're a sad, pathetic liar for suggesting anything of that nature.
Now, I will agree with you that it is the duty of the citizenry to criticize candidates for public office. In fact, I've criticized you for being unwilling to subject the other candidates to the same level of scrutiny that you subject Mr. Bing to.
quote:Right now you are blinded by your passions and loyalities, now lets see some logic.
I am blind to nothing. My loyalties are to the City of Detroit and to the people who live here. Right now, Mr. Bing has produced the best plan for improving the lives of every day Detroiters. If another candidate produces a better plan between now and the election, I'm willing to change my support.
Now that I've answered you're questions, please man up and answer mine:
Why are you unwilling to subject the other candidates to the same level of scrutiny that you reserve for Mr. Bing? |
Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek
Post Number: 2976
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 4:56 pm: | |
Hmm....
2 days later and Political_hack still doesn't have an answer for why he doesn't want to subject the other candidates to the same level of scrutiny that he subjects Dave Bing to.
I am s-o-o-o surprised. |
Jmil
Member
Username: Jmil
Post Number: 1671
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 4:24 am: | |
F,
Maybe he is using jmil rule #1. (for those you you that are new - Rule #1 - I don't respond to idiots)
Normally F, I don't consider you as an idiot, but with comments like:
1) "political hack"
2) "You're a liar"
3) "You're both a political hack and a liar."
4) "You're a sad, pathetic liar"
5) "please man up"
You were over the top dude. I would definitely put you on ignore. That post was not worthy of you, or a response. |
Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek
Post Number: 2977
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 11:39 am: | |
Thanks for the dose of water. Karl Rove, Jr. has been pissing me off. |
Zulu_warrior
Member
Username: Zulu_warrior
Post Number: 3574
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 2:23 pm: | |
I invite you all to the Zulu Analysis thread on the Mayoral election. |
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