 
Andyguard73
Member
Username: Andyguard73
Post Number: 288
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 12:50 am: |    |
"Sadly, the media portrays the average auto worker making 71.42 per hour. Also, the media portrays the unemployed auto worker getting 95% of his salary while he is unemployed, as well as receiving $ 400 a week in unemployment. 95% of 71.42 as well as 1600 a month for unemployment benefits, as well as keeping his health benefits( union perk) is a little much to the $8.00 an hour worker who has lost his job, his benefits and no health coverage......."
Townonenorth and Mashugruskie, I'm not sure you read what Jane wrote the same way I did. It seems like you read the above as if that's what she believes. It seems to me that she's just pointing out the media portrayal of the average autoworker, which we all know is inaccurate, as being one of the causes of the average American's aversion to supporting the loans.
By the way, I'm not sure how to block off the quotes. I checked the formatting tips but couldn't find it. Could someone indulge me with a quick lesson? Thanks |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 5786
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 1:15 am: | |
\ quote{put the text you want to quote here}
but remove the space between the "\" and "quote" |
Sumas
Member
Username: Sumas
Post Number: 402
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 3:04 am: | |
I didn't view the latest round in Washington. So I am not up to date. Friends tell me it looked painful. I have never been a union worker. I do know however we have world class workers here in Michigan. I frankly don't get this congressional bias against Michigan and our auto firms. If need be, I/we will march. Give me details. PS haven't done this since the Vietnam war. |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 5787
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 3:23 am: | |
What we really need is for all workers in the country to get together - union and non-union - because this behavior affects everyone, not just the US automakers. The overly affectionate bond between Washington and the Wall Street bankers and out of control corporatists needs to be broken.
If there was ever a time for Wobblies to resurface... |
Angry_dad
Member
Username: Angry_dad
Post Number: 282
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 5:32 am: | |
Wonder why the "financials" get what they want and "Detroit" has to grovel?
http://www.opensecrets.org/pol iticians/summary.php?cycle=200 8&cid=N00009920#cont |
Bobl
Member
Username: Bobl
Post Number: 240
Registered: 07-2008
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 6:17 am: | |
Well, after my employer of nearly thirty years moved operations to India and Mexico, it took 11 months to find another job. Two months later, another layoff (temporary)!
Guess I have time to march.......
Why are people freaking out about giving the automobile manufacturers a loan, after the financial institutions have been given a gift?
The competition have been receiving subsidies from their own governments all along.
In the words of a great poet: "Who could imagine?" |
Janesback
Member
Username: Janesback
Post Number: 505
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 7:45 am: | |
Townonenorth and Mashugruskie, I'm not sure you read what Jane wrote the same way I did. It seems like you read the above as if that's what she believes
------------------------------ ----
Andy, sorry, didnt mean to start anything, but as I stated in my post,
"Sadly, the media portrays the average auto worker making 71.42 per hour. Also, the media portrays the unemployed auto worker getting 95% of his salary while he is unemployed, as well as receiving $ 400 a week in unemployment. 95% of 71.42"
I just happened to watch Katie Coric on CBS morngin news MOnday, and this is what they had as their facts used for her report. I am just stating what was reported from CBS that morning.
The media portrayed the UAW workers as a bunch of fat cats who aren't feeling the pinch like the rest of the country. Look as they focused attention about the corporate jet fiasco,where the C E O's arrived in private jets to go to Washington. case in point..
Media is biased and from past reports, its obvious that they play on peoples emotions, especially now, when everyone is losing their jobs. A.T.T. just announced that they are laying off 12, 000 more people starting in December
They love the ratings....Jane |
Frankg
Member
Username: Frankg
Post Number: 711
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 8:36 am: | |
Actually, there is a group of autoworkers marching on Washington on Monday: http://www.autoworkercaravan.o rg/
I think it is a dissident group within the UAW that is sponsoring this. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 8008
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 8:46 am: | |
SAVE THE BIG THREE!
Let's tell those democrats and republicans in congress to approve the bailout for the Big Three or it's your midterm election year. |
Sumas
Member
Username: Sumas
Post Number: 404
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 9:25 am: | |
Just a thought, our representatives get a pretty sweet pension and great health care bennefits after serving. Why aren't they sacrificing anything to assist this country and economy? |
Civilprotectionunit4346
Member
Username: Civilprotectionunit4346
Post Number: 773
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 9:49 am: | |
Shoot I work for Gm/OnStar and they have gotten rid of a bunch of supervisors, laid off a bunch of our employee's, cut hr's for some people who work at our building.
If things get worse....I am moving. Sorry folks, I just need to survive. I am glad I have a job...but the pay stinks, upper management keeps putting more and more dump rules & regulations. Such as not being able to use the bathroom no more then 8minutes for the day for your shift. No tell me that isn't some total illegal crap?
It does suck to see them bail out the banks that messed up alot of stuff. The housing market isn't helping either. Next thing we are going to see is a big issue with the credit card industry. Cause you know they are going to raise there rates(that are crazy as it is)and your going to see people take a big hit with that.
Im sorry if I say what I am going to say sounds so negative...but ive lost all hope for our government & for the new president elect. We have been bought and sold yr's ago our country and most people are to ignorant to see how much we are being screwed by the banking industry, corporations and the government.
Someone said it's time to take a stand and march on washington....No its not time for just us here in Michigan it's time for us as a whole country to step in and take control....remember folks it's power to the people. Just think what our forefathers are thinking about what a disgrace we have become. |
Goat
Member
Username: Goat
Post Number: 10584
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 10:02 am: | |
Sumas, you nailed it! It time of economic distress it is always sad to see these smug politicians still riding the gravy train.
What makes them so special? It seems most of them are dumber than the average person but they are just lucky to have more money to get into office. |
Flanders_field
Member
Username: Flanders_field
Post Number: 1362
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 1:45 pm: | |
quote:If things get worse....I am moving. Sorry folks, I just need to survive. I am glad I have a job...but the pay stinks, upper management keeps putting more and more dump rules & regulations. Such as not being able to use the bathroom no more then 8minutes for the day for your shift. No tell me that isn't some total illegal crap?
A company that I worked for a while ago, tried to dictate limiting restroom visits to a maximum of 5 minutes per visit. Not difficult for us males to comply, esp. when just needing to use the urinals, but for the females it seemed very unreasonable, especially during "that" time of the month. It "pissed" me off that they would be so callous as to try to time control shit happens, apparently because of the actions of a very few, who had abused restroom visits by taking short naps in the stalls.
I went to see my doctor and told him that I needed a FMLA form filled out, which indicated that I had occasional constipation that necessitated restroom visits of 10-15 minutes. I made a copy, then brought it in to work and gave it to my supervisor. Apparently upper management were doing the same thing to them, because she read it, smiled, and said that she was going to see her doctor and ask him to do the same thing. Wasn't long before my idea spread, and management issued a retraction letter, stating that longer restroom breaks would be permitted, as long as a supervisor or manager was notified beforehand.
(Message edited by Flanders_field on December 05, 2008) |
Angry_dad
Member
Username: Angry_dad
Post Number: 283
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 3:38 pm: | |
Borrowed from another board:
From the period 1981 until 2015, Michigan has contributed more in federal income taxes that the federal goverment has spent in Michigan and to its citizens. From the Tax Foundation, Michigan and its residents have, on average, received $0.80 for every dollar paid in federal income taxes. That ranks as 44th worst. Over the past 10 years, Michigan residents and businesses have paid $100B+ more than it has received. As Michigan slipped into a recession after 2001, we have still be a net provider to the rest of the country, with $4B+ flowing out of Michigan. As we led the nation in unemployment, we still funded other states.
We have funded increased gov't spending the South and the West and the autos successes were shared by all. Now we need help and the discussion is on air travel. If the D3 fail and economic armageddon arrives in Michigan, will our tax dollars still be dispersed to Alabama and Mississippi?
We have sat and watched the goverment pour money into hurricane ravaged regions, while ignoring the economic storm that has flown over Detroit for a decade. We have watched as the goverment helped fund infrastructure development in the Sunbelt, while ignoring the rustbelt. We have watched the government tax us to pay for wars overseas and allow foreign aid to be "lost". We have watched unfair trade harm our businesses while we coddle to the Chinese to pay for unjust wars. We have watched greed and ignorance bring our financial sector to the brink.
We have watched all this and remained silent. Now, us Michiganders, us Americans now ask for assistance and we are laughed and mocked and patronized like children? We have sat silent while out gov't has fumbled our economy, two wars, and destroyed our credibility and mortgaged our financial future. And now the same gov't has the gall to mock us?
I say let's go bankrupt - let's reorganize, dust ourselves off, and get back to being a leader in manufacturing. And then let's give a heardy FU to the Senators from Alabama and Alaska and where else they are from. |
Kimmiann
Member
Username: Kimmiann
Post Number: 81
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 4:22 pm: | |
My 3-year old Ford Focus is in tip-top shape and should get around 28 mpg on the way to DC. By my calculations, that's less than $30 in gas. I'm ready. This whole debacle has frustrated and angered me. |
Mbshan
Member
Username: Mbshan
Post Number: 65
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 5:39 pm: | |
Here's another question that I have. If these other car manufacturing companies pay their employees less than the union backed big 3, and don't have the legacy costs that the big three have, then why are their cars just as expensive if not more? Shouldn't those two things lower the prices of their cars by a couple thousand dollars? |
Detourdetroit
Member
Username: Detourdetroit
Post Number: 441
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 8:46 pm: | |
they're going to let obama take care of it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12 /06/business/06auto.html?hp |
Defendbrooklyn
Member
Username: Defendbrooklyn
Post Number: 1089
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2008 - 9:24 pm: | |
yes |
Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 6501
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 06, 2008 - 12:01 am: | |
To be honest, I don't trust him any further than I can through him. At least Bush is clear about his high reluctance to help Detroit. Obama's been dancing around the edge of the loan request for many weeks, now. Fact is, we can't rely on either of them. It's time we operated as if no one else cared, because quite frankly very few do. In fact, Obama has said himself that he approved of the terrible and unconstructive Kabuki that gets called "hearings" in Congress, these days. |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 5793
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, December 06, 2008 - 12:07 am: | |
Obama has no vote now - he isn't in office yet and has already resigned his Senate seat. The best he can do is behind the scenes work and reportedly he is in favor of the loans. |
Tkshreve
Member
Username: Tkshreve
Post Number: 697
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, December 06, 2008 - 12:36 am: | |
I like what I hear....... but where do and how do the voices (or voice) of MI get heard. The media paints us any way they want.... and we know how that is. A march on Washington sounds good on paper, but we need to be realistic.
I think that something could be done here in our own state that would rally the masses much more effectively. You have to respect the fact that majority of the state can't just pick up and go to washington. And for those that would actually make it, the size of the group would be insignificant as to grab the attention of the media/gov't/nation anyway. It would be laughed at.
First off, we need to voice ourselves under a very streamlined ideology. I think the main points being what Angrydad touched on above:
-Lack of leadership in modern day America via leadership by example
-Corporate, Wall Street and Governmental irresponsibility
-Loss of blue collar jobs overseas which only serves to line the pockets of Corporate America
-The abandonment and degradation of the middle class
-The selfishness of the American public to rally against its own people under the guise of media bias
-The transfer of wealth
-[whatever other obvious treasons I am missing]
Now we might be able to march in our own state, but will that be enough. I think to have maybe one of the biggest rallies ever hosted by MI citizens in Lansing could be a good start. How many people do you think a strong movement could muster over to Lansing...... 200,000? ..... 300,000? ..... More?
That might draw the eye of public America.
Who would communicate our pleas? Someone famous? Someone very near and dear to our beloved county? How about several famous people from many different fields and industries that have common goals and altruistic intentions for this world close to their hearts. Someone from the sports world. A politician. A philanthropist. A famous actor. If you get a sound group who share these ideals..... you may have a start.
No offense to the originator and backers of the WA march, but the rest of the USA just doesn't care about a couple hundred auto workers who drove to WA to make a statement. They have proven that many times over.
Frankly, our country and the citizens can not take much more of the things that have been going on. It shows in many ways I don't feel like getting into. But for many people across this country, it is pretty much wits end. We need to reach out to the ailing people who have been taken advantage of. Not the impoverished who want a freebie, but the people who have been unrightfully stripped of their fair chance at a reasonable, free life in the USA. It seems like every time the citizens get thrown a bone, Gov't/Corporations find some way to harness it for their own good.
It has to stop. Now. The American public needs an AWAKENING. Our voice NEEDS to be heard. |
Philbo
Member
Username: Philbo
Post Number: 48
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, December 06, 2008 - 12:44 am: | |
I just heard on the news that France is g-i-v-i-n-g thier domestic car industry billions of dollars to stay competitive. So all of you who oppose the "loan" should give that some thought. We're probably the only country that is'nt subsidized, and do not forget the National health insurance that thier workers receive.
(Message edited by philbo on December 06, 2008) |
Mashugruskie
Member
Username: Mashugruskie
Post Number: 326
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, December 06, 2008 - 1:15 am: | |
And also the fact that most in Europe are Union, receive 30 days vacation (and stress pay). Europe works less, receives less pay but is better taken care of by their government. We work 10 times harder, do repetitive work that damages the human body, have injuries in all plants almost every other day and are castigated by our own American people.
When it comes down to brass tacks, we're shit out of luck and can only prove our case by taking care of our own people in Michigan. Let the nay-sayers go. We've been through this before. We're a little grittier and rougher but also tougher. |
Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 6505
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 06, 2008 - 1:29 am: | |
Philbo,
I posted a whole series of links to articles about other auto industries in one of these threads, but can't seem to find it. Anyway, the UK, Spain, Sweden, Canada, etc...are either all considering, or have already, bailed-out (i.e. most of these aren't even loans) their own domestic auto industries. And, we don't even need to speak of Japan, where they've literally been propping up their domestic auto industry for decades on end. |
Umtim
Member
Username: Umtim
Post Number: 38
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 06, 2008 - 7:45 am: | |
I spent some time in Pennsylvania. I lived in small towns erected near coal mines. Eventually the coal was gone but the people stayed. Unemployment was high. Many old people on social security lived there.
Driving 30 minutes to work has an adverse environmental impact. Contributes to global warming. This practice may continue but the environmental consequences will be grave for the grandchildren.
There are lifestyle alternatives to this way of life and they ought to be pursued in my view. Detroit can retool and be a part of the transportation alternatives and changes in patterns of life or not.
People left the coal mines of West Virginia to come to Detroit to make cars. If some other state leads the way out of the environmental mess Michiganders will move there.
Our auto makers are not well recieved in dc because they have resisted air pollution standards and fuel efficiency for years. Our senior house members are losing chairmanships due to a change in the attitude toward the auto industry and how they have responded to oil and environmental issues. |
Alan55
Member
Username: Alan55
Post Number: 2457
Registered: 09-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, December 06, 2008 - 1:41 pm: | |
I find it grimly amusing that, for decades, GM and it's PAC gave countless millions in political contributions to Republican candidates (who no doubt drove BMWs) and conservative causes. Now, when GM and the other Two are struggling for their lives and begging for a lifeline, those Republicans are saying "Fuck you, GM - die."
Nice to know, isn't it, that all that money bought them so much good will? It's poetic justice, except for the fact that it will be the workers, retirees, municipalities, and local businesses that will be paying the price for GM's stupidity. |
Philbo
Member
Username: Philbo
Post Number: 51
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, December 07, 2008 - 12:37 am: | |
Alan55, Big business hedges thier bets and gives money to the party and candidates that are likely to win. Small business owners are probably the largest block of contributors to the GOP. I,m sure G.M. has contributed to the DEMS as well.
(Message edited by philbo on December 07, 2008) |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 5800
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, December 07, 2008 - 8:05 am: | |
Not only are members of both parties saying but so is the mass media on both coasts. Today a UCLA economist wants Toyota to take over GM and Paul Krugman says the US auto industry is going to disappear.
Friedman's at it again today, too, trying to sound smart by latching onto ideas that the auto industry, especially Bob Lutz, and John Dingell expressed ages ago - a gas tax! No shit, Sherlock!
I'm tired of the paper pushing academic assholes and do nothing corporate media pundits. Fuck 'em all. |
Janesback
Member
Username: Janesback
Post Number: 509
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, December 07, 2008 - 8:15 am: | |
I ve always said China is a powerful nation , one that is so crowded that they want only one child per couple. Nothing would surprise me when it comes to a powerful nation as China or Russia. The U.S. is a bread basket to the world, and they know that.Besides, look how much we have borrowed from them ,as well as the amount of real estate they own
Keep your friends close, your enemies closer....Jane |
Alan55
Member
Username: Alan55
Post Number: 2462
Registered: 09-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, December 07, 2008 - 8:33 am: | |
Philbo: "Alan55, Big business hedges thier bets and gives money to the party and candidates that are likely to win. .... I,m sure G.M. has contributed to the DEMS as well."
Not, really, Philbo. Big businesses give money to parties and candidates that match the politics of the people running the company - in GM's case, conservative Republicans.
If by contributing "money to Dems as well" you are referring to D.I.N.O.s like Joe Lieberman, then, yes, they have - but not to real Democrats.
GM has supported the Repubs for years, and now those same Repubs are pissing on GM. The shelf life of all those contributions isn't very long, is it? |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 5801
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, December 07, 2008 - 8:41 am: | |
Not true, Alan. GM most notably has supported Michigan's own Dems in Congress, which is a major factor in why John Dingell recently got bounced from his influential Chairman position on the House Energy and Commerce Committee.
What's going on now is not simply GOP v Dem. It is class and cultural warfare and a lot of it breaks down regionally.
This is a national version of the city v the suburbs.
(Message edited by lilpup on December 07, 2008) |
Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 6510
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 08, 2008 - 12:17 am: | |
Alan, you've got your facts wrong. As with any big business, they give to whomever will take their money. They've given big to both Dems and Republicans, and this is quite typical of big business. Big business also tends to go where the power's going, so expect more corporate PAC donations to Dems over the coming years.
This is not a partisan thing, and that people continue to push that somehow the Dems are so much better than the GOP with the current auto crisis is funny. If it was true that the Democrats were still the friends of the American worker we'd have never gotten to the question of if we should save the industry, but how. That the debate was allowed to get beyond how to if should tell everyone something. We've got us a bloc, but a shrinking bloc, of staunch supporters for the workers in this party, and that's it. |
Philbo
Member
Username: Philbo
Post Number: 53
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Monday, December 08, 2008 - 1:06 am: | |
I've watched politics for years and the candidates donations seem to ebb and flow with thier poll numbers. But Allens right about companies supporting thier interests -to a point. |
Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 6513
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 08, 2008 - 1:56 am: | |
I'm not sure who didn't say that. In fact, I think someone else said it before he did. Just so happens that their interests aren't always with the GOP. |
Pam
Member
Username: Pam
Post Number: 4929
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 08, 2008 - 7:22 am: | |
Auto workers make trip to DC.
http://www.wxyz.com/news/local /story/Detroit-Auto-Workers-Ca ravaning-To-DC/_fuHfDpAH0OkIDY J4YsGrg.cspx |
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