 
Vetalalumni
Member
Username: Vetalalumni
Post Number: 564
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 2:03 am: |    |
Gistok:
"so much to post..."
If you were referring to photographs from the tours, we will patiently and anxiously await your rouse from repose. |
Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 874
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 3:16 am: | |
Wow! The State/Palms/Fillmore looks totally different. I haven't been there in a while, but all those drapes and things. Weird that a band like Rise Against will play in such a classy joint.
Thanks for the shots, Scottr! |
Detroite
Member
Username: Detroite
Post Number: 26
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 2:14 pm: | |
any other pics? |
Magic_mushroom
Member
Username: Magic_mushroom
Post Number: 32
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 6:13 pm: | |
I had an excellent time on the tour. It was nice to meet Gistok and Scottr. Later that night, my mom and I attended the Redford for the first time and were very impressed and excited to see such a neat theatre. I really enjoyed the clouds and stars! We had an organ performance by the same guy who played at the Fox on the tour (forgot his name). That was very awesome. It is hard to believe he plays all from memory and is self-taught! Speaking of the Fox, I have never seen such a beautiful and ornate place in my life. I am really glad that the building was fully restored and has been well care for.
I would highly recommend this tour to those that are interested in Detroit's theatre past. You will be impressed. |
Legsdiamond
Member
Username: Legsdiamond
Post Number: 47
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 6:35 pm: | |
If anyone wants to see the pictures I took on last year's tour, you can view them here:
http://faculty.uwstout.edu/pru ettm/detroit%20pics%20for%20we b/
They're not nearly as good as ScottR's my camera is crappy and I'm no photographer...(Gistok, I'm the guy from Minneapolis who came...) It's a great experience. |
Legsdiamond
Member
Username: Legsdiamond
Post Number: 48
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 6:37 pm: | |
Oops, while looking at these pics again, there's a lot on non-theater-related stuff. You'll have to wade through to get to the theaters themselves.... |
Elsuperbob
Member
Username: Elsuperbob
Post Number: 52
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 7:38 pm: | |
Unfortunately I could not make the tour this year either. I'm looking forward to seeing some more of it, though.
In the mean time I'll also offer up some shots from last year.
Fox
http://s19.photobucket.com/alb ums/b161/pamastro/Theatre%20To ur%202006/Fox%20Theatre/
Michigan
http://s19.photobucket.com/alb ums/b161/pamastro/Theatre%20To ur%202006/Michigan%20Theatre/
Opera House
http://s19.photobucket.com/alb ums/b161/pamastro/Theatre%20To ur%202006/Opera%20House/
Gem/Century
http://s19.photobucket.com/alb ums/b161/pamastro/Theatre%20To ur%202006/Gem%20and%20Century/
Music Hall
http://s19.photobucket.com/alb ums/b161/pamastro/Theatre%20To ur%202006/Music%20Hall/
State
http://s19.photobucket.com/alb ums/b161/pamastro/Theatre%20To ur%202006/State%20Theatre/ |
Leland_palmer
Member
Username: Leland_palmer
Post Number: 346
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 10:49 pm: | |
I have a question about the Park Apartments building that houses the lobby to the Oriental Theater. Was the building originally designed to be a hotel/apartments or was it an office building that was later converted? |
Scottr
Member
Username: Scottr
Post Number: 714
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 11:07 pm: | |
Gistok - I thought that OJ tasted a little different! 
Thanks for the compliments on the photos, everyone. Very encouraging, maybe it will be worth investing in the Nikon I've had my eye on. The cheap Canon i used yesterday had a frustratingly long delay that usually resulted in a slightly crooked picture. Not to mention, slightly fuzzy...
I moved my photos to flickr since i originally posted them, for anyone interested, the new link is:
http://flickr.com/photos/scott rreed/sets/72157601540503223/
Magic_mushroom - i'm envious, i wish i had thought to go to the redford! and it was nice meeting you too! |
56packman
Member
Username: 56packman
Post Number: 1652
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 11:09 pm: | |
The Park apartments were originally the Briggs hotel. Many downtown hotels had a blurred business model between hotel (as we think of them today) and an apartment building. At one point the whole building when apartments.
When we took the chandeliers out of the Oriental lobby in 1980 the remains of the Briggs hotel sign were still in that room, up near the doors on Adams. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5136
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 1:13 am: | |
Scottr,
I was just looking at your pics. They let you get behind the plywood to take the old stairs up to one of the higher levels? I was not aware that they allowed that (the Michigan pic with the ladder in the background).
It was a great day. One of the reasons I like doing the State (Filmore) is that my tour ends at noon, and then I can hobnob with the folks at the other venues (I went to the Oriental, Opera House, Fox and City Theatres).
I was very impressed with the show that the Milner folks put on at the Oriental, even though there were few remains to see. I was hoping that the room contained more remains, but sadly not.
And the folks at the Filmore were also very friendly, providing free coffee and donuts (that kept me in "talk mode" for hours!). They really wanted to get out the word that they will be taking good care of our State Theatre!
When I went to the Opera House (where lunches were served), I was honored to sit at the table and have lunch with PW president Karen Nagher, and Karen Vanderkloot DiChiera, (former wife (in good standing) of MOT director David DiChiera). She is Director of Community Programs at the Opera House, and was a wealth of information.
I also found some time to pick the brain of some of my other PW compatriots... Francis Grunow (Executive Director of Preservation Wayne), Michael Hauser (Theatre Historical Society Vice President and author of the Arcadia books on Detroit Movie Palaces and Hudson's, as well as the one in charge of the theatre tours), and Lisa Rush, Secretary of Preservation Wayne. And of course there were my fellow tour guides, such as Harmonie and Bob_j.
These are a wonderful group of people dedicated to historic preservation in Detroit, and who put a lot of hard work into making this tour the best ever!
And before I left for the day, I met up with Miketoronto at the Fox. Although Toronto has many wonderful things... I said to him as we were leaving the absurdly spacious and opulent auditorium of the Fox... "I bet you don't have anything like this in Toronto"... "No we don't" he replied! |
Scottr
Member
Username: Scottr
Post Number: 715
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 2:25 am: | |
Gistok - No, we couldn't go in there, but it was propped open and a light shining in there, just enough to see in, without actually entering. Stuck my arm in to get one pic, could barely see it myself. Amazing to see how much is still there - barely. Despite everything else I saw, the Michigan was still the highlight of the tour for me (as you may be able to tell, since I think I had more pictures from there than anywhere else.)
Good to know that the Fillmore people will take good care of the State. I can't deny that I was a little worried to hear a former division of Clear Channel was taking it over, but so far I don't see anything too worrisome. Hopefully, as they try to grow the brand, they will work towards restoring and preserving the State and the other venues they run. |
Tony_pieroni
Member
Username: Tony_pieroni
Post Number: 33
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 10:52 am: | |
I am glad most people on the tour enjoyed the Michigan Theater. I had planned to be there but had a medical problem (pinched nerve) that kept me out of my car.
I know there's a lot of interest in the currently non-accessible areas of the theater. I'm considering trying to make those (least dangerous) areas accessible by installing some temporary lights and guardrails so that next year, for those that don't mind possible getting dirty, they can take a tour through some of the former public gathering areas, offices and other areas that might be of interest. Gistok - want to give me some help planning that? Do you think it's possible/feasible?
Chezcore has finished the exterior work on the front window restoration and I'm waiting on the electrician to get some backlighting in there so it will be pleasant to view at night. |
Scottr
Member
Username: Scottr
Post Number: 716
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 11:18 am: | |
Great to hear about the backlighting! Thanks for allowing us to see it, and I hope to see more next year! |
Leland_palmer
Member
Username: Leland_palmer
Post Number: 347
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 11:56 am: | |
Thanks to Gistok and everyone else that worked on the tour. Here's a few photos from the Oriental.
I'll try to put more up tonight. |
Mattric43
Member
Username: Mattric43
Post Number: 176
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 12:37 pm: | |
Mr. Pieroni I would love to lend my assistance in cleaning up the non accessible areas to make them less dangerous with you. You can send me an email at Mattric430@yahoo.com if you would like to get in contact with me. |
Miketoronto
Member
Username: Miketoronto
Post Number: 621
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 4:17 pm: | |
The Theatre Tour was amazing. I had a blast, seeing all the theatres and getting to stroll around downtown Detroit. I came alone to the tour, but met this amazing older gentleman who basically gave me the history of everything we walked by, and what it looked like in its heyday, etc. It was great.
Gistok is was great meeting you and putting a face to one of the Detroit Yes forumers.
Detroit is looking pretty great, and it was nice going back out to Clinton Township to my cousins house, and telling them how great Downtown Detroit is looking, after they asked me the famous question "So how was the city, was it really scary". Fun watching their face when I said it was really nice
As nice as Toronto's theatres are, we have nothing that can compare to The FOX.
I would also like to add that Detroit impressed my mom. Her and my dad had never been in Downtown Detroit before, and during the Theatre Tour they had to drive me down from our suburban hotel. I made them take me down alittle early and we drove around a little. Anyway my mom thought Detroit pretty cool, and not scary like all our family makes it sound. Anyway when we were having dinner with our cousins she told them all to stop being so scared, and to go downtown
(Message edited by miketoronto on August 20, 2007) |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5145
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 12:55 am: | |
Thanks for the offer Tony! I've forwarded the info to Preservation Wayne, who is handy at helping with cleaning old theatres!
I'm sure that if we do have a cleanup day (or days), that perhaps a consortium of Preservation Wayne and DetroitYes Forumers would look at this as a labor of love!
Stay tuned! |
Scottr
Member
Username: Scottr
Post Number: 721
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 10:48 am: | |
I'd also be interested in helping out, if I'm available on that day - and I'll certainly try my hardest to have that day off. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5149
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 6:31 pm: | |
Thanks for the cleanup offers folks.
For those who were at the Oriental Theatre during the theatre tours, the lighting of the space was enhanced by portable floodlights owned by the Detroit Opera House.
It's equipment like this along with long extension cords, face masks and other items that are readily available to be borrowed for any cleanup work at the Michigan.
Any cleanup day would likely be on a "non-sporting" weekend, since it would least impact volunteers, as well as Michigan Building parking tenants and sports patrons. |
Rsa
Member
Username: Rsa
Post Number: 1232
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 10:16 am: | |
i'd be willing to help; put me on the list. i've helped clean out theatres in the past for preservation wayne, including the adams and madison (if experience is required ). |
Tony_pieroni
Member
Username: Tony_pieroni
Post Number: 35
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 6:20 pm: | |
Thanks for all the offers to help. However, I'm concerned about liability and would prefer to use an insured contractor to handle the work. I think gistok will go back in there and help plan the areas where it's feasible to permit visitors after they are secured. Thanks again. |
Cman710
Member
Username: Cman710
Post Number: 356
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 8:17 pm: | |
I am sorry to have missed the tours on August 18, 2007. I would have definitely considered flying to Detroit for it were I not flying home from a vacation that day.
Mr. Pieroni, thank you very much for your concern about the Michigan Theater, and your sensitivity to, and help for, those of us with a historical interest. Your hospitality is something that we all appreciate. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5159
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 1:31 am: | |
After helping with the dust choking cleanup of the National Theatre in 2000, I have to say I am not disappointed with Mr. Pieroni's decision.
It is not fun to cleanup an old theatre. Lord only knows what is in those dust particles. The 1920's had different safety issues in materials used than they do today, and asbestos was used in these buildings.
But I am excited about getting more areas of the Michigan accessible for future tours.
So Cman710, probably next year's Preservation Wayne tour will be even better than this year's.
I have to say that with the addition of the Oriental, and more areas in the Michigan to see, as well as further restoration at the Filmore (State), and an organist playing at the Fox, the theatre tours are getting better each year!
(Message edited by Gistok on August 23, 2007) |
Leland_palmer
Member
Username: Leland_palmer
Post Number: 349
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 1:00 pm: | |
I finally got around to posting my photos from the Michigan Theater. I'm looking forward to the possibility of seeing more of the theater next year. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5162
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 4:03 pm: | |
Nice pics Leland!
I'm going to borrow one of your pics to post here, if that's alright Leland...
______________________
This pic gives a good indication of the levels of the Michigan. There was the main floor level (entrance to and main floor of... the garage). Then the 2nd and 3rd level of the garage are both on what used to be the very tall mezzanine level (level 2) of the theatre.
In this pic, the 2 people on the right are in front of what was the upper half of the mezzanine stairs (level 2). The level above that (the cross beams above the 2 people) was the 1st balcony level (level 3), which also looked out over the grand lobby (at a higher elevation than the top of the parking deck).
Then next level up was the 2nd balcony foyer (level 4). This is located where that square hole is about 25 feet above the 2 people in the picture. This hole is one of two 2nd balcony entrances from the 2nd balcony foyer to the balcony (the other is farther to the left in the picture).
Above this 2nd balcony foyer is a 3rd balcony foyer (level 5). This foyer (unlike the others) was open to the auditorium at the back of the balcony.
And finally above the 3rd balcony foyer was the projection booth (level 6). Its window openings can be seen at the top of the pic.
___________________________
The open areas (with stairs) on the right of this picture will likely NOT be accessible to the public in future tours. This area has too many open walls, and would be very expensive to make accessible.
It is the area behind the side wall on the left side of the pic (stairscases, hallways, theatre managers office, and access to the great false front arched window) that is being studied for what can be made accessible for tours.
The only one of the balcony foyers (and that's a big "if") that might be available for a tour would be the 2nd balcony foyer (level 4), those 2 square holes about 25 feet above the top of the parking deck. This is the only level that would require minimal railings added. All the other foyers are dangerous open spaces that would require a lot of added work, and therefore are likely not going to be accessible. Also, getting to the projection booth would likely require some rather scary open stairs, and is also likely not on any future tour.
This pic of the grand lobby is taken looking towards the former theatre entrance. The tall mezzanine level (white panels) do not allow a view of the grand lobby, but above that the 1st balcony level could end up having new railings so that a safe view of the grand lobby might be available for tours.
Many of the areas behind the mezzanine and 1st and 2nd balcony levels may depend on how far they are from an electric power source, since illumination is a necessity for any future tours.
Here's a view from the left most opening (in Leland's pic) of the 2nd balcony foyer. Whether this space can be made visitor friendly is still yet to be determined. It may be quite a distance from an available electric power source.
Again, all this is just conjecture on my part. Mr. Pieroni and/or building experts may determine that some areas just cannot be made accessible. |
Drm
Member
Username: Drm
Post Number: 1132
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 11:26 pm: | |
What is being done to preserve what is left of the Michigan? |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5167
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 12:38 am: | |
Mr. Pieroni put a new roof on the former theatre space several years ago. So that will protect not only the surviving plaster (for the most part), but also the steel framework that the theatre is made of.
Plaster is never heavier than when it is first installed (with all the water content). By having the theatre open on the sides to ventilate vehicle exhaust fumes, it also allows allows for excessive humidity to escape.
Most downtown palaces are only air conditioned during events. During off times they are not, and they can be hot and humid inside.
Although the Michigan is not heated during the winter, the lack of humidity during cold weather months reduces the damage to the existing plasterwork. Ideally it would be better for the plaster to not get that cold, but it has survived 30 years in that type of environment.
Occasionally some plaster does fall, but it is very light and flaky and has so far caused no damage to cars parked beneath it.
Unlike the Fox (which has very thick plasterwork on the ceiling), the Michigan's plasterwork is relatively thin, due to all the details put into it.
(Message edited by Gistok on August 24, 2007) |
56packman
Member
Username: 56packman
Post Number: 1669
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 6:22 am: | |
Gistok--I've been above both ceilings (much more time above the Fox ceiling) and they are pretty much the same. Same construction technique, very thick ornamental work in some places, thin "plain" sections elsewhere, but pretty much the same. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5172
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 1:15 pm: | |
Thanks 56packman, I was quoting from the Theatre Historical Society Annual booklet of 1995 on the Michigan Theatre. It mentions how thin the plasterwork of the Michigan was because of the great amount of detail in it. |
Leland_palmer
Member
Username: Leland_palmer
Post Number: 363
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 4:13 pm: | |
Better Late then never...Photos from the State Bar and Grill/Fillmore Detroit & The Opera House.
Faded Detroit |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5278
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 1:09 am: | |
Due to his busy schedule, I won't be meeting with Tony Pieroni again until the end of September or early October to go thru the closed off areas of the former Michigan Theatre once again, to help him determine what areas will be suitable for renovation (railings/lighting etc.) for future tours.
Stay tuned! |
Screamingfit
Member
Username: Screamingfit
Post Number: 23
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 7:48 pm: | |
I had no idea about the Michigan Theater being a parking garage! Is there anyway us lay people can access a parking spot there to take pictures? |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5291
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 2:12 pm: | |
A belated welcome Screamingfit!
During business hours the garage is only accessible to building tenants. However the former theatre space is open to the public for major sporting events at Comerica Park and Ford Field. And Tony Pieroni (building owner) usually only charges $5 to park there, which is very reasonable when compared to the lots in west Foxtown and elsewhere. If you do come downtown for one of those events, come early since there are "regulars" who park in the former theatre space at bargain prices.
Other than that, the former theatre space is open to occasional visitors who make advanced inquiries of the building management.
And the former lobby and auditorium is open during the annual Preservation Wayne Historic Movie Palace Tours every August.
And in the works is a possible tour expansion of spaces that have been closed off for decades. I've been an acquaintance of Tony Pieroni for 7 years now, and he has asked me to help him decide what areas will be upgraded (safety and lighting wise). Whenever we get together we end up sharing information about the Michigan Theatre & Building that the other of us didn't know before. It's always an interesting conversation. I hope that I have in some way helped give him a greater appreciation for his building than he had when he first purchased it.
My area of expertise is historic movie palaces, especially those of Detroiter C. Howard Crane (who designed many of Detroit's other downtown movie palaces including the Fox), and of Chicagonians C. W. & George L. Rapp (Rapp & Rapp) who designed the Michigan Theatre (and also the nearby former Leland House Hotel on Cass). Rapp & Rapp's favorite theatre design treatment was French Renaissance... in a style labeled "Rapp & Rapp Versailles". They are famous for "bringing the glories of Royal France to theatres across America". And the Michigan was their largest theatre in that style, just edging out the famous 3,880 seat Chicago Theatre.
Rapp & Rapp designed theatres were known for their large amount of "circulation space", and the Michigan seems to have had a great abundance of it. Much of the Michigan's surviving circulation space is hidden off limits behind closed partitions and temporary walls. And it is some of that glorious space that will be hopefully be accessible and appreciated by others in the future.
Another peculiarity of the Michigan was that it was considered a narrow and very tall theatre. The reason for that was because the original principal owner of the building (John Kunsky) wanted his theatre to exceed 4,000 seats. The only way to do that on a narrow site was to have flat side walls (to maximize seating) and a very tall balcony. Ironically the 4,050 seat Michigan has nearly the same dimensions as the larger 5,048 seat (original seating) Detroit Fox, except the Fox fits its' extra 1,000 seats into a wider auditorium.
Building/Theatre owner John Kunsky liked to exaggerate his theatre sizes. When he opened the Capitol (today Detroit Opera House) in 1922, he boasted 4,250 seats, when actually it only had 3,384 seats maximum. For the Michigan he boasted over 4,500 seats, when the correct figure was 4,050 (some accounts say 4,038).
John Kunsky opened the Michigan on August 23, 1926. That date was an earth shattering day just like August 31, 1997 was... when Princess Diana died. That fateful day in 1926 was when silent screen legend Rudolph Valentino died of Peritonitis... and was actively mourned by over 40 million people.
The Michigan struggled along in the 1960's and 1970's, used for rock concerts until 1976. Then the unthinkable. It was gutted (by previous owners) for a parking garage. It would have been torn down completely for a parking structure, had the theatre portion of the building not been a needed structural part of the office block.
Ironically the mighty 5/28 Wurlitzer Organ of the Michigan was sold in 1955 to a fellow in Racine Wisconsin (who still has it in his huge basement).
Screamingfit, in case you didn't know it, the former Michigan was in a scene of Eminem's movie 8 MILE. It has also been the site of countless commercials and has seen visitors from around the world who make a pilgrimage to see it. It is indeed America's largest interior ruin.
One other note... there is an urban legend in Detroit preservation circles that the Michigan Theatre had a "twin" (like the Detroit Fox did). However this is patently false. No other theatre resembled the Michigan. Now Rapp & Rapp used many of their detailed design elements in many other theatres, but in different arrangements. If someone were to want to recreate/restore the Michigan, it could be done with making molds of interior details of theatres such as the Rialto Square Theatre/Joliet Illinois, Seattle & Portland Paramount, Powell Hall/St.Louis, Palace Theatre/Chicago, Orpheum Theatre/Omaha, as well as a few others. But there was only one Michigan!
(Message edited by Gistok on September 07, 2007) |
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