 
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10301
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 8:37 pm: |    |
DO you really consider New York rust belt? I would also say that Penn can be split into rust belt and east coast. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10302
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 8:38 pm: | |
DO you really consider New York rust belt? I would also say that Penn can be split into rust belt and east coast.
Also I said the Midwest, not states that have lost manufacturing jobs. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3395
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 9:16 pm: | |
There are common interests between New York / Pennsylvania and the rest of the Great Lakes region, primarily because of manufacturing concerns--especially New York City and Philadelphia.
Of course, when you get a group of (mostly) attorneys together on the Hill, how much accumulated knowledge of the blue collar sector is there??? |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10303
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 9:19 pm: | |
quote:Of course, when you get a group of (mostly) attorneys together on the Hill, how much accumulated knowledge of the blue collar sector is there???
I can't imagine anyone could argue with that statement. |
Trstar
Member
Username: Trstar
Post Number: 11
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 10:06 pm: | |
No one is going to help Detroit but Detroit. Even an open call thread like this is quickly hijacked.
First change the attitude and image of Detroit on all levels. Foster an promote "winners". Spelling Bee's, State football champions, solar car racers, robotics competitions, have the Motown masters - funk brothers teach music in the public schools, have a city wide "signing day" where all the athletes in the city show up, have an "ivy league day" where all the ivy league accepted students are showcased.
Make Detroit be Detroit, not Chicago, or NYC, or LA. Focus on Detroit style cooking, dance, roller skating, dress, and music. Use the mega churches to hold conferences and revivals to focus on the spiritual bring outsiders in.
Highlight on Detroit architecture, by ramping up the trade schools to preserve worthwhile structures (not the old CT  )
Expand the Dream Cruise concept INSIDE Detroit with a "pimped out" (I hate that term) cruise.
Change the City's rep from being one of the fattest to one of the healthiest. More fun runs, health jogs, jump rope contest, "city Olympics".
Start a film festival to highlight new city based or African American films (even from Africa).
Promote self less and qualified leadership. Ego filled politician are ok as long as they put the city first and not try to pimp the job.
Vote. Early and often.
Fix the insane and redlined insurance policies in the state, which makes living in the city fra-diculous.
Look forward. Stem cell research, software design, advanced materials, biodiesel research. This is going to require partnering with WSU, UDM, LTU or even UM or MSU.
to be continued..... |
None
Member
Username: None
Post Number: 76
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 9:16 am: | |
Knowledge is Power, A 50% Illiteracy rate does not help matters much, ignorance breeds hate and mistrust amongst a culture even with in itself to the point of self destruction
Knowledge is Power, did you know that not every kid standing on the corner with a red shirt on,
is not necessarily a drug dealer
Knowledge is Power, did you know that every pick up driving kid,
is not necessarily a racist
While these are ridiculously simplistic rants the Truth of the matter is, we tend to marginalize what we don't understand and what we really seem to miss is that Were all in this together, It's a Karma thing this wheel needs all its spokes to spin true and we apparently have a flat
Truth not Tolerance lays a good foundation recognize the essence of all religions/beliefs is Love One Another.
Pretty simple stuff until one adds organized religion and it all goes to hell in a hand basket, so do the logical thing, what feels right in your heart, a Smile begets a Smile and so forth, while this may sound terribly simplistic all Great Truths are
The distilled wisdom of thousands of years has been floating around in our subconscious since Dr. Susse
and Mother Goose enchanted us with their wit and style so many years ago
"So Free your mind and your ass will follow, be color blind don't be so shallow"
Snap who sings that song its stuck in my head, like Clinton's cigar washer
So what are the Positive Solutions for our Home Love One Another, Simple as that
Peace |
Umcs
Member
Username: Umcs
Post Number: 64
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 9:26 am: | |
Detroit isn't alone in needing this positive solution:
Taking personal responsibility for your life, your home, your family, your neighborhood and your community. |
Michigan
Member
Username: Michigan
Post Number: 1246
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 9:28 am: | |
JT you are wrong. NYC sends more money to Albany then it gets back. NYS sends more money to Washington than it gets back.
NY and Chicago work because people want to be there. Detroit is cheap enough to attract people. Now, make it safe and they will come. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10305
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 9:32 am: | |
Michigan - Does your statement address the statewide tax? Is there one? |
Michigan
Member
Username: Michigan
Post Number: 1247
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 9:35 am: | |
Not that I know of. But like I've said before, there is a lot that I don't know. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10307
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 9:40 am: | |
I could also be mistaken. The people who told me that lived in upstate NY may have been talking out of their behinds. |
Michigan
Member
Username: Michigan
Post Number: 1249
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 11:01 am: | |
They may have been speaking of the law suit that NYS lost to NYC. NYS has been short changing the city on education susidies. They now owe the city its fair share, and they are unhappy about it. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1728
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 11:25 am: | |
Michigan - Does your statement address the statewide tax? Is there one?
Yes, I believe there is. I'll look up some info on it later. The NYC Transit Authority is also run by the state of NY. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1729
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 12:02 pm: | |
Anyway, I think the most positive solution for Detroit is recentralization and serious development of mass transit.
When I was there this past weekend, I was pleasantly surprised to see police officers walking the beat again. This wasn't even downtown, it was on the Blvd. This is a good step in the right direction. The fact that even police officers haven't walked the streets of the city for nearly 2 decades underscores how damaging the retrofitting of the city for the benefit of auto traffic (at the expense of pedestrian traffic) has been for commerce.
I think the city needs to be more concerned with creating density than just creating housing. Thus, striking a balance somewhere between sustaining the populated single family housing neighborhoods that already exist, and giving incentive to build higher density housing closer to the city center.
I think that the Detroit and Windsor should capitalize on their geographic location and build an international business district. I would also lobby for permission to build an international monorail crossing between Detroit and Windsor. |
Margaret
Member
Username: Margaret
Post Number: 196
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 5:40 pm: | |
sure seems like making it safe is probably the First Step. sounds like it. could there be a statewide tax that would be specifically called, say, "Detroit Law Enforcement Fund?" something like that? plus whatever federal help could be obtained, strictly targeted to improving the Detroit law enforcement situation. ???
"The Midwest must save itself because much of the country doesn't care." I really don't think that's true. The sense I get here in the West is that people are concerned, bewildered, and overwhelmed by what is going on in the Midwest and other industrial parts of the nation -- those who are even informed about it. I think the Midwest has a reputation as the part of the country that is more grounded, more "real." IMO, there's nothing wrong with that reputation.
did anyone see the recent Letterman show on which one of the audience members was a trucker who regularly does a run from Ohio to Detroit. Letterman asked him how Detroit is, and he answered, "Grim."
Just think what an incredible success story Detroit could be! so many great ideas on here, most of which could probably be achieved once the boost/reform to law enforcement is accomplished. I love the ideas of new mass transit, recentralization, changing the attitude and image of Detroit on all levels, keeping Detroit true to Detroit, ramping up the trade schools to preserve worthwhile structures, expanding the Dream Cruise concept INSIDE Detroit, creating an image of one of the healthiest cities, etc.
so, now to make that law enforcement funding happen...maybe Detroit needs some really good, high powered lobbyists to get this funding? |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10353
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 8:21 pm: | |
I wonder if the city does use lobbyists. It would make a lot of sense. |
Bratt
Member
Username: Bratt
Post Number: 682
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 9:15 am: | |
I would focus on the crime first. If Detroit could become a city that had zero tolerance for crime, the bad seeds would go somewhere else. The first thing I would do would be create another unit of the police department, strictly traffic cops. If this unit did their job correctly, it could be self funded. The way people drive in the city...they could write tickets all day long.
I do not know the statistics, but there is a huge percentage of people driving in Detroit who do not have valid drivers license. And even a larger percentage who do not have insurance.
If people were afraid to drive in Detroit like they are across 8 mile, we would get rid of a large number of riff raffs. I know alot of people who won't even cross 8 mile because they know they will be stopped and arrested.
You want to attract people back to live in the city, you have to make it safer. You can create thousands of jobs, but these people will get in their cars and drive to their suburban homes at the end of the day. |
Hans57
Member
Username: Hans57
Post Number: 197
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 9:42 am: | |
In my experience, my friends and I always felt a sense of relief from police interference when crossing over 8 mile into Detroit. It was going back into Ferndale when we prepared to be pulled over.
Really, how often do you see the Detroit police doing a routine traffic stop?
I wish it weren't that way. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1732
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 9:56 am: | |
I would focus on the crime first. If Detroit could become a city that had zero tolerance for crime, the bad seeds would go somewhere else. The first thing I would do would be create another unit of the police department, strictly traffic cops. If this unit did their job correctly, it could be self funded. The way people drive in the city...they could write tickets all day long.
Honestly, even if the police did manage to "push" the bad seeds out of the city, they are just gonna set up shop somewhere else. That somewhere else will definitely be somewhere in the vicinity.
For all these cities that have supposedly driven down crime, I'm interested in how the crime stats of the metropolis changed in relation to the crime stats of the city (i.e. Metro wide, did crime stay the same or go down?).
Btw, there were two more cops shot last night in NYC. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2285
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 10:03 am: | |
"How do you create jobs when there is a real lack of access to capital in the city?"
Yeah, THAT'S the problem... If only they had access to capital, Detroit's economy would be booming! ::rolls eyes into back of fucking head:: |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10357
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 10:15 am: | |
Care to elaborate. Rolling your eyes into the back of your head doesn't support your claim that access to capital is not an issue for people starting business and creating jobs in the city.
Please enlighten us with all of your knowledge in this area.
So you recommend that Detroiters need to create jobs for the city but laugh about an issue of gathering capital to start a business. Let's hear a little more detail of the ease of starting a business and accessing the capital. Certainly you should be giving seminars on the topic. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2287
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 10:23 am: | |
Because it's ridiculous for you to suggest that banks have some sort of general rule that they will lend money to citizens and companies of every other major city in America, just not Detroit...though I'm becoming more and more used to hearing this "woe is me" attitude coming from Detroiters who think a different set of rules apply to them than to every other city
And in situations where they won't lend to certain people, there are normally good reasons for it...in such cases there is a high risk of default, so simply providing capital in these situations won't do any good...
Banks are in the business of loaning money to make a return on interest...they aren't in the business of withholding money just because they can, regardless of what you believe...
(Message edited by thejesus on October 03, 2007) |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10359
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 10:32 am: | |
quote:Because it's ridiculous for you to suggest that banks have some sort of general rule that they will lend money to citizens and companies of every other major city in America, just not Detroit...though I'm becoming more and more used to hearing this "woe is me" attitude coming from Detroiters who think a different set of rules apply to them than to every other city
You tend to read too much into posts. I never said that there is an agenda but the simple fact of the matter is that you the more collatarral/credit one has the more access to money they have. I'm not to sure if you are aware of it but the average Detroiter does not have as much wealth as most of their suburban counterparts. It is simple economics.
I never said that there is an agenda by anyone but there is a lack of wealth in the city and a lack of wealth makes access to capital much harder.
Keep making assumptions. It is much more productive than engaging in conversation. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2291
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 10:42 am: | |
^the inference that you were suggesting their was an agenda was a logical one...
if you're not suggesting there's an agenda, then that means that the reasons Detroiters lack access to capital are completely within their control...which then means that they DO have access to capital just the same as citizens of every other city if they so choose...
you follow? |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10361
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 10:49 am: | |
quote:^the inference that you were suggesting their was an agenda was a logical one...
I disagree.
quote:if you're not suggesting there's an agenda, then that means that the reasons Detroiters lack access to capital are completely within their control...which then means that they DO have access to capital just the same as everyone else if they so choose...
Really, please explain. Is it all of the great paying jobs in the area, all of the great opportunities that they have access to due to our wonderful mass transit?
If you are taking it down to the most generic level of opportunity from birth if they make good choices that is one thing, to say the opportunities are there is they are willing to work hard is an extremely simplistic claim.
It is a shame that you oversimplify the challenges that many people face (In the city and other communities). You seem to be implying that they are not willing to work or not work hard enough which is typical classist non-sense. I have put the challenge to many and have never gotten a response.My challenge is for you to find a single fast food place in the city with a help wanted sign.
At damn near every job fair in the city there are thousands upon thousands that attend. It is lack of effort for some but a lack of opportunity for many, many hard working people.
You follow?
PS - This is where you point out the million challenges that you have overcome in your difficult life to be on a path to be such a high powered attorney that no Detroiter will be able to afford. I am sure that you have faced challenges that would make most of us cry in sympathy. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10362
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 10:53 am: | |
PS - I am not saying that there are not a fair amount of people that are lazy or actively looking for work but the oversimplification of opportunity is extremely frustrating. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1739
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 10:55 am: | |
PS - This is where you point out the million challenges that you have overcome in your difficult life to be on a path to be such a high powered attorney that no Detroiter will be able to afford. I am sure that you have faced challenges that would make most of us cry in sympathy.
Nah, he's gonna say something like all a Detroiter needs to do is just graduate from high school in order to have guaranteed acceptance at a top university.
(Message edited by iheartthed on October 03, 2007) |
None
Member
Username: None
Post Number: 92
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 10:55 am: | |
Investment Capital and the availability of funds IS directly related to the zip code, one only has to do a little research to understand the demographics of the situation
"And in situations where they won't lend to certain people, there are normally good reasons for it...in such cases there is a high risk of default, so simply providing capital in these situations won't do any good..."
Change people to zip code's and you have answered your own question |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2292
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 11:44 am: | |
You're all right. Detroiters are just completely fucked. There's nothing they can do about it. The power to improve their lives is solely in the hands of others. (that's sarcasm, if you could not tell)
The attitude you've all expressed above is simply the difference between people like you and people like me. It's the difference between feeling powerless to control your own destiny and feeling empowered to decide your own fate in life...
And maybe it's not your fault. But one thing is for certain...when people choose to adopt your philosophy, THEY are the only ones who will suffer for it...
(Message edited by thejesus on October 03, 2007) |
None
Member
Username: None
Post Number: 94
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 11:53 am: | |
Snap
Realities a bitch, eh Thejesus
The difference between you and me is that I'm out doing it every day and your ranting about it |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2294
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 12:08 pm: | |
"Realities a bitch, eh Thejesus"
Well, whatever it is that you're out doing, apparently it doesn't involve knowing the difference between plurals and contractions
Reality's a bitch, eh None? |
None
Member
Username: None
Post Number: 95
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 12:23 pm: | |
I must admit I'm a simple man plurals and contractions are not my strong suit, however now that you have pointed it out I'll work on it, Thanks |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2296
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 12:26 pm: | |
^don't mention it |
None
Member
Username: None
Post Number: 97
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 12:40 pm: | |
American Heritage Dictionary
con·trac·tion
1. The act of contracting or the state of being contracted.
2.
1. A word, as won't from will not, or phrase, as o'clock from of the clock, formed by omitting or combining some of the sounds of a longer phrase.
2. The formation of such a word.
3. Physiology The shortening and thickening of functioning muscle or muscle fiber.
4. A period of decreased business activity.
Thats funny Shit Smart Ass |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10365
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 12:51 pm: | |
quote:The attitude you've all expressed above is simply the difference between people like you and people like me.
Another oversimplification. My attitude is a matter of reality for others, not necessaily myself. I can't expect 'someone like you' to have a little empathy for the plight of the less fortunate and those whose circumstances are much harder than anything I have ever faced. Continue your oversimplifications and stereotypes if it makes you feel better.
Maybe one day you will slip off your ivory tower and see how others live and struggle day in and day out.
Working for my degrees, completing my masters at night is nothing compared to what many, many people face everyday. I am willing to recognize that different people have different challenges. Instead of beating my chest and considering myslef superior I try to understand the struggles others face.
If I ever develop the elitist/classist attitude that you have I ask that someone please kill me. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10368
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 1:23 pm: | |
Margaret - Sorry for sidetracking a thread to discuss positive actions with bickering. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2298
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 1:30 pm: | |
I think you scared her away Jt1 |
Margaret
Member
Username: Margaret
Post Number: 199
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 7:02 pm: | |
naw, I'm here! just had to be away from the computer most of today. bickering schmickering...it takes a lot more than that to scare me away LOL. I've certainly done my share...
so, how do we get pro-Detroit lobbyists to the legislators? LOL...
I think the idea of the traffic cop division raising revenue is a great one! could there be a citizen commission to streamline the DPD? or work on these reforms? |
Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman
Post Number: 538
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 9:16 pm: | |
Instead of Disneyland, we could have Gettoland complete with bus tours. Imagine all the tourists we could get to see a city nearly destroyed by large urban freeways and tax breaks for land developers. There is lots of art all over Detroit drawn all over the buildings and must see areas with lots of large buildings.
This can work to help save DDOT. And save SMART from cities such as Livonia who have state leaders who approve of large suburban freeway expansions for the wealthy mansion owners to drive big cars and companies such as Wal-Mart that rely on big trucks. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 182
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 9:28 pm: | |
Actually Trainman, I heard some out of world mention of Disney solomnly looking into a theme park for Metro Detroit.
Otherwise, I do agree with Margaret. We also must create good regional cooperation before anything really gets started though.
(Message edited by Detroitrise on October 04, 2007) |
Margaret
Member
Username: Margaret
Post Number: 205
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 12:56 pm: | |
hey, if the city was safe, a theme park down by the river, or on an island, would be a fantastic asset for the city. I certainly remember what an asset Boblo was!•• bringing back that kind of fun would be nothing but GOOD NEWS, in my opinion -- but of course only AFTER the hard work of regional cooperation, an improved Detroit law enforcement system, and other important improvements take place. onward and upward!
Trainman, your challenge: help turn things around instead of spending your energy on "clever" satire. to take this nearly destroyed city with all of its problems, and turn it around: wouldn't that be the ultimate triumph??? you can bet your (smart) ass it would...
it's obvious to me that it's not just a Detroit problem, it's an American problem. Detroit going down is bad news for all of us. Believe it. |
Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover
Post Number: 2671
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 1:36 pm: | |
It is just a Detroit problem to the rest of the world Margaret. The Mayor has said as much.
Crime and Safety are still the number one issue. Detroit has a culture, an entrenched intractable culture of violence.The former chief (Oliver) told us that. Who knows if that will ever change.After decades I'm not confident it will.
But young people, i.e. elementary aged could be saved.They probably need to be removed and sent to schools far from the city where they live and learn.It is not an impossible idea.
I believe people need to be taught how to live and how to work.Especially if they have never known how to do either.It can be done.But it will be difficult and there must be some desire from those being taught. And taught means learning how to dress,hw to show up to work on time, to accept that there are supervisors and they will be bossed around.
It could be done. I just don't see it being done. |
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