 
Michigan
Member
Username: Michigan
Post Number: 855
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 11:43 am: |    |
No IHD, Sorry. It's not "flyover Country", it's "flyovers". Meaning the people that you fly over on your way to or from either coast. You know the people who actually work in this country. The question always is, " how will it play to the flyovers?"
(Message edited by michigan on August 01, 2007) |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1255
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 11:44 am: | |
Same difference... |
Michigan
Member
Username: Michigan
Post Number: 856
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 11:47 am: | |
One is a non-judgemental reference to land that you fly over. The other is a demeaning reference to the people that you fly over. They are not even worth identifying.
Believe me it is said with condescension. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1256
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 11:57 am: | |
>Believe me it is said with condescension.
I know that. But I have heard both terms used interchangeably. It's just that flyover, to my understanding has generally been those in the plains and mountain states.
Honestly, there isn't much string pulling on either coast for a place like Detroit, or even Chicago (though Chicago doesn't pull the strings on its own industry like Detroit). Maybe that's why I never associated the term to mean (in general) anything east of the Mississippi River. |
Michigan
Member
Username: Michigan
Post Number: 857
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 12:25 pm: | |
Sure I understand what you are saying IHD. No one wants to be a "flyover. It is more of a cultural reference. People on the coasts do not know Detroit from Louisville from St. Louis from Depere.
As far as string pulling-
Cerberus is based and run out of New York. They own Chrysler, they also own GMAC. They will be pulling lots of strings in Detroit.
New York firms KKR and GS own the commercial mortgage arm of GMAC, now called Capmark.
Carl Icahn is looking to pull more and more strings in Detroit. He is based in New York.
Allison Transmission is now owned by a New York Consortium led by Carlyle.
The vast majority of the money that keeps GM and Ford above water comes from the capital moving through the banks, partnerships, and funds on the coasts, mainly New York, Boston, San Francisco. There is a lot more string pulling than you might realize.
And, when I lived in Milwaukee I didn't like the idea of being a flyover. But To the taste-makers and media drivers, I was. Just the way it is right now. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1258
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 12:39 pm: | |
^Yeah, but all that you list is a recent change in how things were done. Cerberus/Chrysler, GMAC were all done within the last couple of years. Detroit has traditionally pulled its own strings, and I'd say the automakers have done much more of the string pulling on Wall St., than vice versa (historically speaking).
Maybe the average New Yorker, who doesn't understand much beyond the Hudson River might equate Detroit to Milwaukee or St. Louis, but a person truly in the know wouldn't be so silly. There are no companies in New York bigger than the one based right there in Detroit. Wall St. stockbrokers have plenty of clients with metro Detroit addresses.
On a side note, there is a lot more money in Utah than I ever realized. |
Michigan
Member
Username: Michigan
Post Number: 861
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 1:41 pm: | |
Whatever you want to think, it's a-ok with me! Listen I love Detroit and the mid-west in general, but you are kidding yourself. I am not in anyway trying to cut down Detroit, and I do not want to thread jack anymore.
just take a look at this link, http://www.forbes.com/lists/20 07/18/biz_07forbes2000_The-Glo bal-2000-United-States_10Rank. html
The first automotive company to appear is Caterpillar, they rank #144. I don't even see Ford or GM on the list.
17 of the 35 largest corporations in the country are based in NYC or its suburbs, those numbers to the left are their rank in the entire world. The largest corporation in the world is based in NYC. Then look at how many of the remainder are based on the east or west coasts. THis does not include the trillions of dollars that are in private equity groups and hedge funds that are not ranked. I know that some people in the Metro Detroit area have a lot of money. But you appear provincial when you think it can even come close to the money that pours in every day from Asia, the middle east , Europe, South America, California, Massachussets, New York, Miami. These places, especially New York, are global cities that have huge amounts of money floating in from the entire globe.
The fact is the bankers have been calling the shots on the big three a long time.
You are exactly right, the average coaster has no idea about Detroit, or anything else in the mid west. In fact, they know the western states much more because they ski or fly fish in the mountains there in Vail, Telluride, Beaver Creek, Taos, Tahoe; or they gamble in Vegas.
So, IMHO WSU does a good thing by making it their mission to educate as many people as they can. I applaud them, much as I applaud City College in New York for the same thing. WSU is not Ann Arbor, it shouldn't try to be.
(Message edited by michigan on August 01, 2007) |
Lmr
Member
Username: Lmr
Post Number: 83
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 1:42 pm: | |
Here in Minnesota we call ourselves "flyover country" or just "flyover"...especially when referring to the east coast...and believe me, it is said with sarcasm. If there is anything we love to make fun of here it is both coasts.
I do agree though with an earlier poster that I have usually heard the flyover terms to refer to places west of Chicago. I've also heard that term used much more by people from the east coast than the west coast.
One thing we really like about living in the hinterlands of flyover country is that the cost of living is a lot lower so we can accumulate a larger chunk of money to invest in one of those coastal brokerage houses (we use one based in California) where those folks with the ivy league finance degrees had better be managing our funds so that they keep up the 5 stars on morningstar. |
Michigan
Member
Username: Michigan
Post Number: 864
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 1:48 pm: | |
LOL LMR, very good! |
Patrick
Member
Username: Patrick
Post Number: 4754
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 1:48 pm: | |
Michigan, seems to me that us "flyover" folks look at the people on the coasts with just as much disdain as they look at us. It goes both ways. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1259
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 1:55 pm: | |
I guess the discrepancy is how we are defining big companies. Of the top 10 on my list, 2 are from metro Detroit (okay, one via Stuttgart), and none from New York. When you expand it to the top 12, Detroit has 3, and metro NY only 1.
1. Wal-Mart Stores
2. Exxon Mobil
3. Royal Dutch Shell
4. BP
5. General Motors
6. Toyota Motor
7. Chevron
8. DaimlerChrysler
9. ConocoPhillips
10. Total
*11. GE
*12. Ford Motor Company
http://money.cnn.com/magazines /fortune/global500/2007/ |
Michigan
Member
Username: Michigan
Post Number: 865
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 1:58 pm: | |
Hey, I don't blame you. Most people here are ---holes! I was just agreeing with Ksolo and Eheming that I have also heard the school snobbery that they were discussing. That was all.
Believe me, I would much rather LIVE THERE THAN HERE. The people are nicer, the life style is nicer, and ironically I think that the people there are more well educated about the world than on the coasts. The midwest is the best place to live in my opinion. My family is in Leland right now, leaving me to slave in the salt mines. I watched them have dinner on the Cove's WebCam tuesday night. |
Michigan
Member
Username: Michigan
Post Number: 866
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 2:01 pm: | |
I see IHD, Forbes used market cap and money used gross sales. There are quite a few NY companies on that most profitable list. But more intersting is the money losers list. Quite a few Detroiters there. Including Ford, GM, Lear, and Delphi.
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/fortune/0707/gallery.global500_losers.fortune/5.html
One of the basic tenets of business IHD- you need to make a profit to say in business. Or you need to borrow a lot of money. That means relying on bankers who then call the shots in the covenants of your bonds and loans.
Like I said, the strings are no longer being pulled in Detroit. They haven't been for a long time.
(Message edited by michigan on August 01, 2007) |
Sstashmoo
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Username: Sstashmoo
Post Number: 193
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 2:06 pm: | |
Quote: "The fact is the bankers have been calling the shots on the big three a long time"
Correct.
Thats why a few of them have been contemplating a stock buy back to regain full control and get these money-grubbing leeches out of their pocket.
This mentality that some sector of business or group has absolute control is utter nonsense. Henry1 proved that with the construction of Rouge Steel now Severstal. There isn't much that can't be superceded, changed or circumnavigated. Death and taxes.. |
Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 3566
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 2:14 pm: | |
The Russian--Rouge/Severstal NA--was recently purchased by another foreign company--British, perhaps. Their older names--Rouge or Severstal--are still used, I think.
Ford sold Rouge during the 1990s, and Rouge Industries went bankrupt about four years ago. There was only one bid for it in federal bankruptcy court, although US Steel submitted a bid for a couple days just prior to the bidding deadline--then promptly retracted it.
The former UAW workers were working for only a tiny fraction of what they once made. Severstal only bought the assets--not any Rouge Industries liabilities, including the UAW.
(Message edited by Livernoisyard on August 01, 2007) |
Michigan
Member
Username: Michigan
Post Number: 867
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 2:19 pm: | |
I did not know that LY. It really makes me sad to see us losing our manufacturing capabilities. I think it has becaome a national security issue.
Wait, LY- was it that Indian steel magnate that bought them? I seem to remember something about that.
(Message edited by michigan on August 01, 2007) |
Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 3567
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 2:27 pm: | |
Google it. Although it's about a mile from here, I don't pay much attention to it.
Their ancient, familiar coke gas tower was pulled down about a year ago. Ford once wanted to use it for a public observation tower--and run excursion boats up/down the Rouge--but apparently changed its mind.
My grandfather worked there at the coke/cement plants (Ford--not Rouge) eons ago.
(Message edited by Livernoisyard on August 01, 2007) |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1261
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 2:27 pm: | |
"One of the basic tenets of business IHD- you need to make a profit to say in business. Or you need to borrow a lot of money. That means relying on bankers who then call the shots in the covenants of your bonds and loans.
Like I said, the strings are no longer being pulled in Detroit. They haven't been for a long time. "
The thing about companies like GM and Ford is that they control a LOT of capital (well, until Ford mortgaged everything). That kinda makes them the boss, Wall Street be damned. Wall Street would be nothing without the capital that Detroit's companies have pumped into it.
Did you read the interview of the guy from GM? Talking about the health care issue? He said something along the lines of GM pays the health care for at least one person in every zip code in America. That requires a massive amount of capital that is controlled in Detroit.
I don't claim to know all the specifics about GM's financial situation, but I do know that if Wall Street were really calling the shots then things would be running a lot differently. |
Lmr
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Username: Lmr
Post Number: 84
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 2:31 pm: | |
Michigan...glad you liked my comment. I work for one of the companies on the Forbes list that you posted (not automotive) and I get to see a fair share of east coasters (they are computer technical people like myself and not bankers). In my field (software engineering) the list of valued schools is a little different than for finance and law. Penn State and Purdue are two that are very highly rated.
Hey, as long as you guys are maximizing the return on my money...I'll say you're doing a good job...and the programs on the internet these days allow us to track what's going on...so we are watching. |
Michigan
Member
Username: Michigan
Post Number: 868
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 2:34 pm: | |
LOL IHD, you can think whatever you want. 
Take a look at their Balance sheet and you will see where the capital came from.
(Message edited by michigan on August 01, 2007) |
Michigan
Member
Username: Michigan
Post Number: 869
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 2:39 pm: | |
LMR, Nittany Lions and The Boilermakers. Great schools both of them. What schools have good computer game developer programs? I know University of California has a very food one. Any others? |
Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 3568
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 2:43 pm: | |
The three best (undergrad) colleges for chemical engineering are: U of Minnesota, U of Wisconsin, and MIT--usually in that order. |
Michigan
Member
Username: Michigan
Post Number: 870
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 2:45 pm: | |
LY, any specific campus for the first two? Or do you mean Madison and Twin Cities campuses? Both fantastic schools.
Oh, and MIt is not bad either.
(Message edited by michigan on August 01, 2007) |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 3569
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 3:02 pm: | |
Those stats were from the Chicago Tribune over the years. I suppose U of Minnesota would be the Twin Cities campus. Remember Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing (3M)--inventor of Scotch tape?
Myself, I'm probably biased for studying Chem E after electrical E and accounting there at the U of Wisconsin-Madison. I was fortunate to take courses from all three of the world-famous BSL Transport Phenomena troika--Bird (rheology specialty), Stewart (tensors, etc), and Lightfoot (ultra-filtration expert)--while at the end of their teaching or after being emeritus.
BSL
UW has its own 75-tap 6-story tall fractioning tower in its classroom building on Randall and Johnson next to the Camp Randall football stadium--used primarily for distilling 94% ethanol for demonstration purposes.
BTW, while we're on this tangent: the U of WI-Madison has the highest percentage of first-time success rate of CPA exam test takers nationally (based on several decades) followed by U of IL-Champaign.
(Message edited by Livernoisyard on August 01, 2007) |
Michigan
Member
Username: Michigan
Post Number: 872
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 3:07 pm: | |
U of I is a great school also. It doesn't have the national rep of Madison or Ann Arbor though. |
Lmr
Member
Username: Lmr
Post Number: 85
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 3:28 pm: | |
Michigan
I'm not really sure which schools would be the best for gaming development specifically since computer science schools tend to be a little broader than a specific area like that. That said, since gaming development is much more centered toward California than anyplace else (i.e. companies like Electronic Arts and Linden Labs, the creators of Second Life, which is not gaming specifically but similar to gaming in many ways are both from San Francisco.) I would think that University of California and Cal Poly would have strong computer science programs for game developers. UCLA has had a highly regarded computer science program for a long time.
Another school very highly ranked always in Computer Science is Carnegie Mellon (in Pittsburgh). Among ivy league schools the only two that I can really associate with computer science are Dartmouth and MIT.
I've been out of college for many years so I may have lost track of what some of the schools are like.
At the place where I work (almost 24 years there) we have a large number of big-10 grads. A lot of them are brilliant. I live in the twin cities now but I work in Rochester (Minnesota) where the Mayo Clinic is. Minnesota may be flyover country but east and west coasters (and others) line up to apply to Mayo Medical School.
Another school that is considered really good for things like chemistry and physics is Iowa State at Ames. |
Michigan
Member
Username: Michigan
Post Number: 877
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 3:47 pm: | |
My In-laws go every year to the clinic.
Where do you live in the TC? Have a lot of friends who went to Cretin and St. Thomas. Get out to Edina once in a while also.
My son wants to study Game development, that's why I ask. |
Lmr
Member
Username: Lmr
Post Number: 86
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 4:10 pm: | |
Michigan
I live in St. Paul. I know very well where Cretin-Derham-Hall high school and St. Thomas are.
I guessed you might have some young person wanting to go into game development. Personally I wouldn't encourage any young person to get a computer science degree anymore since so much of it is moving to China and India. I would think they would be better off with a finance or accounting degree or a medical field but then I suppose a lot of financial work could also move to China in the future, too. However, if someone really wants a computer science degree, I would do one of a few things: 1) go to any college with a good computer science program - a degree from something like Carnegie Mellon will probably get you into just about any computer firm you want. 2) check with some of the firms that do gaming development and see which schools they recruit from a lot. For example, if he went to Electronic Arts jobs website and sent them an email or called and told them that he wanted to go into gaming development and wanted to know which schools they recruit from
a lot, he might get a reply.
Another place to look would be Washington or Washington State. I know they both have computer science and Washington's program at least used to be good.
Either way, since firms tend to hire a lot from the region they are in, I would start close to Silicon Valley or Seattle, the centers of pc-based computing. But, if he wants to stay closer to your home, getting a computer science degree from a school like Carnegie Mellon, MIT, Dartmouth, Penn State will get him into any firm he wants, even the big multinationals like HP, IBM, Microsoft. |
Michigan
Member
Username: Michigan
Post Number: 879
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 4:19 pm: | |
Love St. Paul. Have several friends on Goodrich. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 3573
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 4:23 pm: | |
Goodrich--Love their blimps... |
Michigan
Member
Username: Michigan
Post Number: 880
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 4:45 pm: | |
Yes, I think I knew her in high school |
Eec
Member
Username: Eec
Post Number: 105
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 5:02 pm: | |
Sstashmoo said:
_____
Luck and support from family members generally won't get anyone very far.
_____
Exactly. There's no way it'd get you, like, appointed president of the US or anything. Just for example. |
Belleislerunner
Member
Username: Belleislerunner
Post Number: 325
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 5:14 pm: | |
Since when do you get appointed president? Like the guy or despise him, he convinced a majority of citizens (via electoral college) to elect him. That's a pretty good "success" story. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 3583
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 8:20 pm: | |
The civil engineers in the Twin Cities had one of their freeway (35W) bridge spans fall into the Mississippi River this evening rush hour with several cars going into the drink near the U of MN campus. Any deaths are uncertain at this time. Some kayaker is helping pulling bodies, perhaps, saving some...
Perhaps, these were U of MN civil engineers?
(Message edited by Livernoisyard on August 01, 2007) |
Lmr
Member
Username: Lmr
Post Number: 87
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 10:49 pm: | |
I don't know where the civil engineers who put the bridge together were from. But the whole incident is really bad right now. 6 dead so far, at least 60 at the hospitals, and 50 vehicles in the river. |
Jimaz
Member
Username: Jimaz
Post Number: 2809
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 10:56 pm: | |
This probably deserves its own thread. |
Michigan
Member
Username: Michigan
Post Number: 881
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 11:18 pm: | |
That is beyond belief. How does something like tah happen? |
Rivertowner
Member
Username: Rivertowner
Post Number: 5
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 11:32 pm: | |
As a current MBA student at Wayne, I can certainly attest that the business school follows the admit-anyone approach. They require a 450 on the GMAT...which basically implies a competency level somewhere between breathing and tying your shoes. On the other hand, the quantity-over-quality approach to enrollment does mean the school can afford to offer some pretty esoteric electives. Last semester I took a futures & options class, for example...from which the only thing I learned was that it's not much fun to be an options trader for a living.
On a related note, the business school has posted a flyby rendering of their proposed new building:
http://www.busadm.wayne.edu/fl ash/breaking_new_ground/Web/in dex.html
Nice enough design perhaps, but would it have been too much to ask to build out to the lot line on the Woodward side at least? This has the site planning quality of Libeskind lite. |
E_hemingway
Member
Username: E_hemingway
Post Number: 1292
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 10:03 am: | |
Rivertown: If you don't mind me asking, where else did you apply and why did you choose Wayne State? |
Michigan
Member
Username: Michigan
Post Number: 883
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 10:05 am: | |
Rivert- a lot of schools are easy to get in, but harder to stay in once you are there. I think WSU is one of those schools. They give everyone a chance, but if you don't put your nose to the grindstone you won't make it. That's a fair and admirable policy in my opinion. |
Rivertowner
Member
Username: Rivertowner
Post Number: 6
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 10:25 am: | |
E_Hemingway: I looked at just about every other business school in the region (UD-Mercy, UM-Dearborn, UM, Oakland, Walsh, U of Windsor). In the end I only applied to WSU, because
(1) They do a great job orienting classes to people who are working full-time and going to school at night (including online options for some classes, which are really convenient)
(2) WSU's program requires fewer credits than most other schools, i.e. fewer busywork courses that are merely an excuse for b-schools to get more of your money
(3) It was by far the most economical option, which was very important to me because I'm limited by (or rather am limiting myself to) my employer's annual tuition reimbursement allowance
Michigan: You have a point, but WSU's b-school could definitely do a better job putting people's noses to the grindstones once they're in. As other posters have noted, many professors seem obligated to water down their content and grading because of the student body quality. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 3589
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 10:28 am: | |
Back during 1979, I mentored somebody originally from Chicago's inner-city South Side who received a scholarship from the nearby University of Chicago in Hyde Park to attend college for her first time at the age of 22. She claimed to have a 4.0 GPA after graduating there, but I didn't pursue that and I was not aware of what courses she took.
I had already passed the CPA exam, and she now was tentatively admitted to the MBA program at the School of Business at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. Her main problem was that her best GMAT score of two (one while at UoC and the other prior to coming to UW) was around 430--something what you would suspect from somebody who couldn't even pass the GED (a sixth-grade competency test itself, BTW). UW had ordered her take the first two years of the undergrad business courses for remedial purposes--all still under scholarship BTW--a clear example of AA going amok!
So, I did what I could with her until she stopped coming around asking for help. |
Bussey
Member
Username: Bussey
Post Number: 555
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 11:01 am: | |
Livernois,
Did you pick your wife/girlfriend out a top ten list or did you let your heart decide?
GMAT
GRE
LSAT
MCAT
SAT
ACT
GED
These are are great indicators but what about
or integrity, worth, satisfaction, or any other indicator not based on a standardized test that you find valuable.
Is your middle name pedantic? |
Kaptansolo
Member
Username: Kaptansolo
Post Number: 8
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 11:43 am: | |
Thank you very much Eec for pointing out that "connections" and family support do make a difference.
I moved from Detroit(I'm a native Detroiter...grew up near Grand River & Greenfield) to New York City in 1999 and I was just giving my opinions(which as the saying goes...everybody has one).
I agree that the middle class in Detroit did enjoy pretty good lifestyles without "having" to interact much with the upper class.
This is why I was said that a lot of Detroiters and probably quite a few midwesterners find the "game" a lot different once they have to play it on a different turf.
Ssmoo...I just wanted you to know that I was never suggesting that at one time Detroit did not call "more" of it's shots than it does today. I was simply saying, "THAT particular version of Detroit that you and I grew up with is over and I don't think it is coming back."
Lived in Minneapolis, Minnesota for 6 months in 1995. One of the nicest places in the Midwest...I would say...I'm just talking about the people.
I also agree with what was said earlier...that the midwest in general is one of the nicest areas to live in...in the United States. I also say that due to the absence of the auto industry a lot which made it so "nice" is no longer.
As one executive from Ford once put it, and this was shortly after the North American Free Trade agreement...
Reporter: Do you think that Ford along with other American industry leaders have an obligation or responsibility to keep high paying manufacturing jobs in the places they "grew up"...so to speak?
Executive: Well Ford is not an American company...we are a global corporation.
Reporter: How will transferring all of those jobs to Mexico and other nations keep the middle class going which is the very fabric of our country?
Executive: It will not keep that fabric going and it is not Ford's responsibility to do so. Our responsibility is to our stock holders.
Henry Ford gave a damn about the average worker to a degree because he was a "tinkerer" and did hard work himself before he made it. Ford had issues with Wall St. and had a few battles with them over the years. But Ford died in 1947 and most of that type of thinking is also dead.
I was never saying that you could not get anywhere if you attended WSU. I was just saying that the other schools hold a lot more weight.
"it's not what you know, it's who you know" Really and truthfully...it's who you know that wants to help you.
Rivertowner-you are correct when you mentioned the 450 on the GMAT. This supports what I was saying earlier that I have taken a few exams that were just flat out hard to fail. (lol-breathing and tying your shoes).
Livernoisyard-thank you for saying that current workers now are working for a fraction of what they once did and probably with no benefits.
Severstal only bought the assets of rouge...not the liabilities...like the U.A.W.
I also agree that the City College of New York and WSU comparison are right on. Neither are Ann Arbor nor should they try to be. ...and as was stated earlier by Hemingway, in some circles...some...think that even UofM Ann Arbor is a good public school.
Yes to Michigan- I agree...easy to get in, yet harder to stay in. They do give anyone a chance and I agree...damn good policy.
Electrical engineering program at U of Minnesota is a pretty good program...just my opinion. No I did not graduate from there.
(Message edited by Kaptansolo on August 02, 2007)
(Message edited by Kaptansolo on August 02, 2007)
(Message edited by Kaptansolo on August 02, 2007) |
Mike
Member
Username: Mike
Post Number: 956
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 3:36 pm: | |
i applied to wayne and did not get in. i guess that makes me stupid. |
East_detroit
Member
Username: East_detroit
Post Number: 1148
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 4:10 pm: | |
Not as clueless as the person who started this thread.
Nor as clueless as the person calling Wayne #4 behind Michigan Tech.
The different colleges in the universities have their different standards and levels of excellence, but blanket negativity aimed at WSU is stupid. |
Patrick
Member
Username: Patrick
Post Number: 4764
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 4:32 pm: | |
Ha, ED you are hilarious. Coming from a chachi like you I take that as a compliment! |
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