Discuss Detroit » Hall of Fame Threads » Old Car Factories » Old Car Factories - 17
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 16
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 129.9.163.234
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 12:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anyone out there in list-land have pictures of the Packard assembly plant at Connor and E.Warren? I have the Automotive Quarterly book by Kimes, there is a picture of Nance and Powers looking at an artists rendering, and a picture of a Chrysler executive handing over the ceremonial "key" to the plant, and many pictures taken inside. Any thing else in personal collections out there? My car was built there, one week and one day before the collapse of the company.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 737
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 66.19.24.189
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 1:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

56packman, I don't think we have anything on that factory on Warren and Conner. I'll look at some aerial photos, and check some other places.

Lkingsr sent me a few more pics, this time about Charles B. King.

These photos come from "A Golden Anniversary 1895-1945, Personal Side Lights of America's First Automobile Race by Charles B. King, published by Charles B. King in 1945.


John Lauer Machine Shop at 112-114 St. Antoine Street.

Lauer Machine Shop/Charles King

Charles B. King in his office on the second floor of Lauer's Shop at 112-114 St. Antoine Street.

Charles B King in office

Advertisement in the Horseless Age magazine of November, 1895.

1895 King ad

His first official driving of a horseless carriage on the streets of Detroit was March 6, 1896. From his own writings this was not the first ride, but the one that the newspapers caught. His first ride was from Laurer's Shop and up and down Woodward Avenue.

(By now we have to have the most amount of information about Charles B. King and the King Motor Car Co., or perhaps the only one, on the net.)
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 17
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 129.9.163.234
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 2:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hornwrecker--one thing I neglected to mention was that the Packard Connor plant was built as a Briggs body plant, and was where Packard bodies were produced until old man Briggs died and Chrysler bought the business. So it may be listed as a Briggs plant.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 739
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 66.19.24.189
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 3:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

56packman, thanks for that. I now remember that Chrysler divested themselves of that Briggs factory, because, IIRC, that plant had a contract to build Packard bodies and it would have been a conflict of interest. I'll check the Chrysler book, and some Briggs info.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 740
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 66.2.148.7
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've got some old aerials of what I think is the old Briggs plant on Conner near Warren. Chrysler bought Briggs in 1953, so it must have been turned back over to them when Packard folded in 1956. I think that there is a Chrysler plant there today {Jeep?} but a later photo shows that the factory was leveled sometime in the late 1950s.

Briggs/Packard Conner Ave 1956

A photo five years later shows the area now bare.

Warren and Conner 1961

I'll add this to my list of things to keep looking for, along with the hundreds of other OCF photos I want to find.
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Kathleen
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Username: Kathleen

Post Number: 1125
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.14.122.57
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 11:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

On the subject of Charles Brady King....

cbking1
Elmwood Cemetery

It's too bad that there isn't a mention or picture of a car!!
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2312
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 11:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmmm, I've seen that listed on a 1952 Sanborn map as a "Briggs Conner Plant - Aeronautical Division", and in 1957 as "Studebaker & Packard Corp - Automotive Body Division - Conner Ave Plant". Briggs must have built aircraft parts there during the war; maybe the gun turrets pictured back on page 1.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 742
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 66.19.23.27
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 2:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

An ad for the Zenith-Detroit Corp, makers of carbs from 1926, LOC. I think Sven posted a map to this on page 10, with an address of what appears to be 676 Lycaste.

Zenith-Detroit ad 1926

Another parts supplier, who I don't think we've mentioned yet is (Lockheed-)Hydraulic Brake Company of Detroit, formed in the early 20s and soon bought by Bendix. I'm not sure if the Lockheed name was originally used, or just Hydrualic.
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2315
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 8:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1935 addresses:

Zenith Carburetor
696 Hart Avenue

Hydraulic Brake Co
84 W Hancock Ave

Hydraulic (Lockheed) Brake Parts & Service
5535 Woodward
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 743
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 66.19.24.16
Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 5:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Mikem, I've added them to the db, and have finally added all of the Briggs plants with most of the addresses from your Chrysler phone #s.

Any luck finding Huebner Mnfg from that Hupp Motors photo to determine the location of the that factory?

While working on the Briggs entries, I was looking at OCF page 1, and on a map that Mikem posted there was another Packard factory near the Chalmers plant on Jefferson. Since we alreadly located the other Packard factory on Conner and Warren, I wonder if anyone knows about this other, other Packard Factory.

OCF page 1 map c/u

Why am I not surprised that Kathleen has a photo of King's headstone.
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2318
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Huebner Mfg Co
Julius J Huebner, Mgr
Wholesale & Retail, Special Millwork
Lumber, Sash, Doors, Interior Finish
Lath and Shingles, Office, Bank, and Store Fixtures

General Office & Factory
corner Mt Elliott and Milwaukee Aves and MCRR
Phone Lincoln 7010

Lumber Yard
7 Mile Rd, Connors Ave & GTRR
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 2943
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 192.220.139.24
Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 5:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

JJABA just finished reading this page with so many pictures and discussion. Thanks. Excelente'.

jjaba, on the Westside of Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic. 85 degrees and sunny on the Playa Boca Chica. Just like your cars, tops down on the beach.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 744
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 66.19.16.149
Posted on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 12:20 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mikem, thanks for the info, looks like I guessed wrong about the location of the Hupp Motor Car Co in that photo. Interesting to find out that their main lumberyard was near all of others in my old neighbo(u)rhood. I wish we could have some more time to edit entries in the OCF thread.

I've been looking at some aerials for that Packard facility shown in the map, but so far nothing to determine it from any other buildings in that area.

This an aerial of where I think that King chassis warehouse is if anyone in the future, or from out of town wants to find it, and just for the sake of completeness.

King chassis warehouse aerial

King bldg in green. Also a view of the old tunnel to Belle Isle. Don't honk your horn!

Any requests? I currently need some direction for research.
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2319
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 12:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I say, work on organizing this information. But how? Geographically? Chronologically? By company?

For each location collect a terra-server aerial, any historical aerials through the years, including the links for each, a map showing the location, any pictures or links to pictures of the factories, a time line of the factory, etc.

Make an index for this thread.

Head to the library for more Sanborn map reviews.

See what the DPL Automotive Collection has, besides photos.

I have two new Polk's to keep me busy: 1935 & 1940.

Or give it a rest for a few weeks.
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 19
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 129.9.163.234
Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hornwrecker--thank you for the aerial of the Connor plant. That's it. The assets of Studebaker-Packard were taken over by Curtis-Wright corp. in late 1956, C-W closed everything down in Detroit (which is to say all that was left of PMCC) and transferred all operations to South Bend. I don't know who took possesion of the Connor plant, but it was considered a white elephant by the industry, ergo it's demolition by 1961. Chrysler did not want to bother with the contract building of bodies for competitors, no matter how insignificant. The move to Connor was a huge set of nails in the coffin of Packard. The Kimes-AQ book tells the horror stories of a plant way too small to be a body fab and final assembly plant. They wanted out of the multi-story E.Grand blvd. plant, and into a single-level modern plant. We've battled the "what-ifs" of this on the AACA Packard DF.
Had things gone better (re: the original AMC formulation)they might have stayed at E.Grand Blvd. until they could build a "big car" assembly plant (ala GM "BOC") next to the engine-transmission plant in Utica (now Visteon--Mound rd./ 22 mile)
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Bate
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Username: Bate

Post Number: 51
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 71.101.227.115
Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 11:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Back to the war years again. Here's a informative listing of which manufacturers made what for the war effort. I'm fairly sure we have not posted this one. Enjoy http://www.heritageresearch.co m/War%20Facilities3.html
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 748
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 66.2.149.16
Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 12:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Bate, one thing I did notice is that in the list the Warren Chrysler Tank Plant is also referred to as De Soto. I wonder if it was originally slated to be a De Soto one before the war started. Luckily, I live in the right place to find that out, but I think it was just a corporate naming thing, like Chrysler-Plymouth.

Another one, is a listing of Packard at Willow Run for engine testing. Maybe it is time to post the aircraft engine makers of Detroit list here.

Also interesting is listed under Petoskey, the Milkweed Floss Corp of America, purveyors of processed milkweed floss. I was wondering who to approach for all my milkweed floss needs.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 127
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 12:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That de Soto was probably the former MacGraw Glass plant. I forgot what they made during WWII before doing de Sotos in 1947 or so.

I have a relative on my father's side who was the chief tool-and-die maker and head of the stamping plant during his 50+-year tenure at Harley-Davidson in my hometown. HD started the war building a 1942 motorcycle with a shaft-drive (chainless). The Jeeps put that model out of business, and HD made propellors for the rest of WWII.
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Psip
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Username: Psip

Post Number: 910
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 12:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It appears that during the war years, botanists throughout the country were asked to help coordinate the collection and shipping of milkweed pods to a processing plant in Petoskey, Mich. The pods were collected by farmers, church groups, civic clubs and anyone willing to assist.

Milkweed floss, the silken parachute attached to each seed and primarily obtained from Asclepias speciosa (common milkweed), became an important wartime commodity during the

1940s as the Japanese fleet fanned out across the Pacific and captured Java and the Philippines. From those islands came kapok, a seed floss from the silk-cotton tree (Ceiba pentandra), the fiber of which was used as a stuffing for life preservers.

It turns out that milkweed floss is a hollow, wax-coated, flexible fiber six times lighter than wool and ideally suited as a substitute for kapok. The sailors called these life vests “Mae Wests.” a reference to the busty physique of one of their favorite wartime pinup girls. A pound and half of milkweed floss would keep a 150-pound sailor afloat for 10 hours.

During 1944 and 1945, more than 25 million pounds of wild-collected milkweed pods, enough to fill 700 freight train cars, were collected throughout North America. The floss comprises about 20 percent of the dry weight of a seed pod. The company ended up producing over two million pounds floss before the war ended, baling it in cotton-sized bales that weighed a scant 200 pounds.
milkweed pos
The photo is of a 3rd grade class in Woodstown, NJ and shows the bags of milkweed pods they collected in 1944 for the War effort.

The war’s end saw a drop in demand for life vests and the milkweed harvesting scheme fell by the wayside as the cheap, imported kapok returned to the market. But interest in milkweed never completely died out.

Natural Fibers Corp. of Ogallala, Neb., began marketing wild-collected milkweed floss again in 1989 under the brand name of Hyperdawn. It's primarily used to stuff pillows for people allergic to goose down. This year, the first five-acre field of milkweed will begin producing pods near Macomb, Ill. In addition to the floss, an extract from the seeds has been found to be effective at controlling nematodes and may have commercial applications.

http://www.arhomeandgarden.org/plantoftheweek/articles/Milkweed.htm
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2323
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.144.5.244
Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 1:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Warren tank plant was built from the outset as a tank plant. Do a search; I posted some history on it a couple years back.

Also, I recently read that Hudson built an arsenal plant for the Navy in Centerline during the war. Any ideas? Is the TACOM plant west of the Chrysler tank plant in Centerline?

Ford originally got the government contract to build Rolls Royce engines but turned it down once he learned the engines would be used in allied aircraft overseas. Packard then took the contract. Maybe Packard-built engines were used on the B-24s built at Willow Run.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 128
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 1:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We play softball just south of the Chrysler facility in Centerline twice a week. Walking around there I noticed an office that still had some old sign about it being a Chrysler World office - if I read it correctly. Just what did that office do?
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 749
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 66.2.149.16
Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 1:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll look for the Hudson/Navy info at the local library. I seem to vaguely remember my father mentioning something about it, but it's in the back of my mind. Warren Tank only went from Van Dyke to the NYC tracks for the most part, there was some housing on the other side, maybe Psip has the aerial photos from 1949 along with the milkweed floss info.

I might as well post this, as it might prove useful in the future. I think that Packard only made inline aircraft engines, the B-24s used radials, probably Wright-Cyclones if I hazard a guess

Aircraft Powerplant Makers in Detroit

http://www.aerofiles.com/motor s.html
______________________________ __

Albatross Albatross Co, Detroit MI.
---1910 - 50hp@1230rpm 477ci 6RA; dry wt: 250#. Fred Weinberg. Generally accepted as the first fixed radial engine design in the US.
---c.1911 - 100hp@1230rpm 712.43ci 6RW; dry wt: 275#. Similar to the previous, but larger and water-cooled.

Angle Glenn D Angle, Detroit MI.
---1939 - 100hp 184ci 5RA.

Continental c.1923: Aviation & Engr Corp, Detroit MI. 19??: Continental Aircraft Engine Co. 19??: Teledyne Continental.
---A-40 1931 (ATC 72, 174) - 37-40hp 115ci 4HOA. Credited as the simplest aviation production piston engine ever built.
---A-50 1938 - 50hp 171ci 4HOA.
---A-65-8F 1939 (ATC 205) - 65hp 171ci 4HOA.
---A-70 1928 (ATC 32) - 165-170hp 544ci 7RA.
---etc...

Detroit Detroit Aeroplane Co, 74 Crane Ave, Detroit MI; Detroit Mfrs Syndicate.
---Aero 1910-20 - 30hp@1500rpm 237.48ci 2HOA. Fred Weinberg.
---Detroit Aeromotor (1921 Angle Encyclopedia)
---Aeromotor 1910 - 30-50hp 4LW.
---Aeromotor 1910 - 60-75hp 6LW.
---Viking 1919 - 140hp 16XA.

Detroit, Detroit-Rickenbacker c.1918: Detroit Aeronautic Construction Co, 74 Crane Ave, Detroit MI. c.1920: Detroit Aircraft Engineering Corp (Glenn D Angle & Edward V Rickenbacker). 1928: Sold to LeBlond Co, Cincinnati.
---c.1920 - 30-75hp 4LW and 6LW.
---Air Cat 1925 - 60-85hp 234ci 5RA.

Herman David L Herman, Detroit MI.
---1910 - 45hp 8VW.
---1910 - 70hp 8VW.

Hurricane Hurricane Motors, Inc, Houston TX. 19??: Detroit MI.
---C-450 1928 - 150hp 8cyl unknown type.

Kessler Kessler Motor Co, Detroit MI
---Kessler 200 (1921 Angle Encyclopedia) 1917 - 200hp@2400rpm 531.63ci supercharged geared 6LW. Ran a four-stroke cycle, but at the bottom of the intake stroke ports were opened to admit added air under pressure, governed by a rotary valve connected to the throttle, into the combustion chamber, which reportedly produced a compression ratio as low as 3.66:1.
---Kessler 6C-400 (1921 Angle Encyclopedia) 6C-400 1918 - 400hp 855.3ci 6LW; dry wt: 578#. Six-valves experimental; POP: 1.

Liberty 1917: Packard Motor Co, Detroit MI. 1919: Liberty Engine & Foundry Co, Seymour CT.
---4 (L-4) 1918 - 100hp 4LW. POP: Only a few built by Hudson Motor Car Co, Detroit MI. None was used for flight.
---Liberty 6 (1921 Angle Encyclopedia) 6 (L-6) 1917 - 231hp@1700rpm to 240hp@1850rpm 824.46ci 6LW; dry wt: 567.5#. Charles Hall, J G Vincent. POP: about 50 built by Hall-Scott and Thomas-Morse Co. Conflicting data in the 1921 Angle book claims a total production of only 6, all built by T-M. Redesigned at McCook Field in 1920, and 10 engines were ordered by USAS.
---Liberty 8 (1921 Angle Encyclopedia) 8 1917 - 290hp@1700rpm to 317hp@2000rpm 1099.28ci 8VW; dry wt: 638#. POP: 15 built by Buick Co; vibration problems ended production, as well as a decision that more power was needed for combat aircraft
---etc...

Maximotor Maximotor Makers, Detroit MI.
---1908 - 50hp 4LW.
---c.1910 - 60-70hp 4LW.
---c.1910 - 70-80hp 6LW.
---c.1910 - 80-100hp 6LW.
---c.1910 - 100hp 8LW.
---c.1915 - 120hp 8VW.
---c.1910 - 150hp 6LW.

Michigan Fred Weinberg, Detroit MI
---1911-? hp 196.35ci 2RA. Both cylinders fired simultaneously each revolution; two-stroke cycle with an independent exhaust valve. Valves had no springs and were held in their seats by centrifugal force and operated by pushrods and rockers.

Packard Packard Motor Car Co, Detroit MI. 1928: Ended aircraft operations except for experiments and WW2 production
---299 1922 - 100hp@2300rpm to 130hp@3300rpm 12VW; dry wt: 500#. POP: 2 racing engines.
---452 1916 - 140hp@2000rpm 452ci 6LW. POP: 2.
---etc...

Viking Detroit Mfrs Syndicate Inc, Detroit MI
---1919 - 140hp@1600rpm 530.88ci 16XA; dry wt: 306#.

Warner 1928: Warner Aircraft Corp, Detroit MI; 1940: Detroit MI.
---Junior 1928 - 50hp 5RA.
---Scarab 1928 (ATC 2) - 125hp@2050rpm 422ci 7RA; dry wt: 285#.
---Scarab Jr 1930 (ATC 54) - 90hp 5RA.
---Super Scarab (R-500) 19?? (ATC 104(?), 214) - 165hp@2100rpm 499ci 7RA; dry wt: 332#.
---Super Scarab (R-550) 19?? (ATC 235) - 185-200hp 555ci 7RA.

(c. = circa), ATC/Group 2 Memo (in parentheses) - basic horsepower, displacement, number of cylinders and type: A = air cooled; H = horizontal; I = inverted; L = inline; O = opposed; R = radial; V = V-head; W = water- or liquid- cooled; X = X-head. designer; ? = unfound or uncertain data.

From the 1921 Airplane Engine Encyclopedia by Glenn Angle
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Psip
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Username: Psip

Post Number: 911
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 1:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the plant on Lawerence and Bernice was a US Army installation but it was not built until 1952. There are no other large building in Center Line in that era. It is now the Mopar parts depot.
Bernice


Mopar
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 129
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 1:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Noticed mention of the Rickenbacker aircraft engine, above.

In case it wasn't brought up before: After the demise of the Rickenbacker on Cabot, it made aircraft components there:
Audi

The origins of Audi

The company traces its origins back to 1899 and August Horch. The first Horch automobile was produced by him in 1901 in Zwickau, in Eastern Germany. In 1910, Horch was forced out of the company he had founded. He founded a new company in Zwickau and continued using the Horch brand. His former partners sued him for trademark infringement and the German court stated that the Horch brand belonged to his former company. August Horch was obliged to refrain from using his family name in connection with cars. As the word "horch!" is old German for "listen!", August Horch used the Latin equivalent of his name, "audi!" for his next effort. It is also popularly believed that Audi is an acronym which stands for "Auto Union Deutschland Ingolstadt". Audi produced over 2 million vehicles at its headquarters plant in Ingolstadt. Audi has another production plant in Neckarsulm.

Audi started with a 2612 cc model followed by four cylinder 3564 cc, 4680 cc and 5720 cc models. These cars were successful even in sporting events. August Horch left the Audi company in 1920. The first six cylinder model (4655 cc) appeared in 1924. In 1928, the company was acquired by J S Rasmussen , owner of DKW, who bought the same year the remains of the US automobile manufacturer, Rickenbacker including the manufacturing equipment for eight cylinder engines. These engines were used in Audi Zwickau and Audi Dresden models that were launched in 1929. At the same time, six cylinder and a small four cylinder (licensed from Peugeot) models were manufactured. Audi cars of that era were luxurious cars equipped with special bodywork."
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 130
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 1:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Chrysler office with that old sign is on Lawrence, just north of the depot.

BTW, the various Macomb county police use the area between the athletic fields and the depot for a firing range. It's in deep center field on diamond #3. Can be annoying when playing CF and several dozen shots are being fired...
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Psip
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Username: Psip

Post Number: 912
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 1:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Warren Tank plant in 1949
Tank Plant
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Bate
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Username: Bate

Post Number: 53
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 4.247.134.201
Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No doubt the figure-eight loop, seen below the plant, is for giving those new tanks a proper shakedown. Sign me up for a road test!

During a recent visit, I drove around the Clark St. area looking for remnants of the Cadillac plant. There are two buildings between Merritt St & RR tracks and McGregor St & RR tracks that are of interest. After checking a 1960's era aerial view, I found the Merritt St. building was connected by a bridge over the tracks to the plant - so at least one building still remains.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 133
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 11:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a view of the Cadillac plant from (Grand Trunk) Junction Street. You can orient yourself on a google earth or terraserver by placing the razed tower where its interlocking box - SE of the diamonds - at the start of the 10-mph curves.

West Detroit
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2325
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.144.5.245
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 2:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I read about the Hudson Naval Ordnance Plant in Center Line in the book, "State of War," where it's briefly mentioned in the first chapter. When I get home I'll check the author's foot notes. This link also lists a Naval Ordnance Plant in Center Line: http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwa r/USN/ref/USN-Act/MI.html

The GM plant on Mound north of 9 Mile is still within Warren's city limits, correct? Bate's link also lists a Westinghouse plant in Center Line. Maybe the Navy plant was operated by Westinghouse, although my link makes it look as though there were two seperate plants. Any ideas? Was anything significant demolished for I-696?
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Psip
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Username: Psip

Post Number: 925
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 2:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For the life of me, I cant think of any plants in Center Line aside from the one on Lawerence.
11 Mile was pretty clear all the way from Hoover to Mound. There always was talk of a freeway someday going there.
I grew up in CL until about 1963. Being that CL is only 1.7 sq miles, I explored about every inch of that place on my bike.
Is it possible the plant you speak of is only supermarket sized? There might have been a couple of them on 10 mile E of VD.
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Bate
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Post Number: 54
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 4.247.134.112
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 12:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anyone looking for auto plant related collectibles? Here's an ebay link to a seller with employee badges and tool tags (see list of other items at bottom of page)- many from the plants in this discussion. Hope we don't all bid against each other. http://cgi.ebay.com/FORD-MOTOR -HIGHLAND-PARK-Auto-Factory-Em ployee-Badge_W0QQitemZ65992664 58QQcategoryZ14025QQrdZ1QQcmdZ ViewItem
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Bate
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Posted From: 4.247.134.3
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 12:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A number of posts back, Hornwrecker was entertaining what to do with this "beast" of a thread. I think we all would love to see some type of website that lists manufacturers with histories, locations, photos and alike. Problem being, who will want to undertake that massive project. One possible answer is Wikipedia. Why not use them to list the data. There are already entries for a few car factories - I'm sure we can add some more. The format looks quite simple and allows for editing, photos and external links. As an example, check out "River Rouge Ford" which is already listed. Maybe, as an experiment, someone can try posting a new entry to see if Wikipedia suits our needs. Hey, just an idea to save some formatting time/effort and bandwidth costs.
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Hornwrecker
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Post Number: 751
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Posted From: 66.2.148.162
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 11:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bate, I've thought about using Wiki, but haven't really checked on how the info in inputted and how the photos are formatted and posted. Will look into it, thanks.

Here is a wartime photo of the Saginaw Steering Gear plant, is it the one on Holbrook?

Saginaw Steering Gear WWII

This factory made machine guns, not sure which type during WWII.
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Mikem
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Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 12:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Looks like new construction. The American Axle plant is much older, unless this was a wartime addition. Maybe it's their Saginaw plant?

Here are the references to the Hudson Center Line plant from "State of War" by Alan Clive:

quote:

Chapter 1, p. 24: The tempo of the defense program increased rapidly in Michigan during the waning months of 1941. On October 28, Undersecretary of War Robert Paterson dedicated the Hudson naval arsenal at Centerline [sic] in Macomb County, a few miles from the Chrysler tank plant. Hudson planned to manufacture the twenty millimeter Oerlikon antiaircraft gun in the 135-acre complex, which had been erected in less than eight months. Detroit News, Oct. 26, 1941




quote:

Ch. 3, p. 101: Division within cities and towns over the location of a housing project, school, or hospital, as well as the inability of neighboring local jurisdictions to submerge longstanding disagreements, could delay federal action for months. The government chose sites in southern Macomb and northern Oakland Counties for several important defense plants, including the Chrysler and Hudson arsenals. The area's partially constructed sewer system, however, was insufficient to cope with the demands of a suddenly increased population. By February, 1941, state health officials warned that residents faced outbreaks of typhoid fever and other virulent diseases unless corrective action was taken. But the various Macomb governments could not devise a satisfactory method to raise their share of a sewer project's costs, nor could they come to an agreement with Detroit on a fee for the use of the city's sewer lines and treatment plants. Although the Public Works Administration (PWA) gave tentative approval in November to a large scale sewer system, it was October, 1942, before all preliminary obstacles to the project were overcome and final authorization granted. The system, so urgently required months before Pearl Harbor, did not reach completion until September, 1943.



and,

quote:

Ch. 4, p. 141: Intolerance flared most fiercely in the war plants when workers struck over racial issues. To protest increased black employment or upgrading, whites staged numerous "hate strikes." Rarely did the hate strikers constitute a majority of the work force in any plant, but their actions might well have expressed a majority attitude. Blacks also stopped work on several occasions to protest some form of employment discrimination. Twelve thousand black workers struck the Rouge steel mill on April 29, 1943, in opposition to segregation. Management and the UAW usually stood together against these outbreaks in their insistence upon the enforcement of Executive Order 8802 [outlawing discrimination in defense plants], and the union acted with far greater severity in opposition to racially motivated walkouts than it did against work stoppages begun for other reasons. After Klan sympathizers closed the Hudson arsenal on June 18-19, 1942, the UAW gave full approval to the Navy's discharge of four ringleaders. Companies learned to stand up to white workers who insisted on the removal of blacks, but generally refused black appeals for an end to job bias.


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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 761
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Posted From: 63.41.8.11
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 10:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I got a couple of books from the library today: the history of Warren, more of a hardbound pamphlet had no useful information on this, and "Detroit Goes to War", again not much info but lots of photos of old WWII automaker ads.

Here are a few Hudson ads mentioning the making of 20mm Oerlikon machine guns for the Navy. Is it possible that the old Hydramatic plant on 9 Mile and Mound was this Hudson Navy factory? The acreage seems about right.

Hudson WWII ad

Hudson WWII ad

... and my favorite, the "Nazi Pigboat" one.

Hudson WWII ad

If anyone has any ads from certain automakers that they would like to see, there are lot from all Detroit makers.

One more, this time for Chrysler, Navy spotlights:

"It wasn't just dark... it was black as Tojo's heart."

Chrysler WWII ad
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Hornwrecker
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Post Number: 763
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Posted From: 63.41.8.11
Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 12:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is all I could dig up on the net about the Hudson/Navy Ordinance factory in "Centerline".

15 buildings on 140 acres from the article below. Looking at that aerial from 1952 of Lawrence, it looks like an awful lot of scraped land; I wonder if the 1949 photo, to the RR tracks would show the same amount of cleared land. From the link below, it would have to have rail access.

Time magazine, Nov. 10, 1941
The Navy completed—with the opening of a new ordnance plant last week—a new group of factories which will add a modest 100% to the output of those types of war goods produced at the Navy's main ordnance plant in Washington. The new group consists of three plants (which will give the Navy nine ordnance centers): > The plant opened last week—a little $20,000,000 job, consisting of 15 enormous buildings completed in seven months on a 140-acre tract at Centerline (on Detroit's outskirts). Managed by Hudson Motor Car Co., it will turn out everything in the small ordnance line,...

Centerline Naval Ordnance Plant (Hudson Motor Car Company). Box #40 National Archives, Chicago, War assets property disposal.

Link to page about a small industrial switcher used at the Centerline Hudson/Navy factory.

http://www.rockhilltrolley.org /roster/m25.htm

(Message edited by Hornwrecker on January 28, 2006)
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2329
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Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 12:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, I too think the Hydramatic plant is the one. When was Warren incorporated? Was the area previously Warren Township? Or Center Line Township? Is that little cluster of military housing on the east side of Mound, north of the factory, within the Center Line city limits?
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Hornwrecker
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Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 12:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Warren was incorporated in 1957, but it was Warren Twp, Centerline was earlier, I think and its boundaries were already set.

The military housing just north of the GM Drivetrain plant, now a Salvation Army HQ, is/was in Warren.
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Psip
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Post Number: 955
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Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 12:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A map of Center Line from Mike Grobbels excellent site.
It appears the city limit does extend about 50 feet past the RR tracks on the west side. This would be the property of the Hudson Naval Ordnance Plant.
It was most likely called the Center Line plant to avoid confusion with the Warren Tank Plant and to give the City of Center Line a feeling of contributing to the war effort and some extra tax money


See post below for map

http://centerline.grobbel.org/

(Message edited by Psip on January 29, 2006)
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Hornwrecker
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Posted From: 63.41.8.11
Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 1:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Psip, the Hydramatic location would be on the extreme SW corner of Centerline on the map, on the other side of 10 Mile. On the other side of the tracks would be right about where Van Dyke Gas is, with those huge concrete bumpers almost on the sidewalk, leftover from when they had coal unloading trestles.
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Psip
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Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 1:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh thats right,, thats where the pre-stressed concerte place was.
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Mikem
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Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 1:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When do you think GM acquired this plant? Did Hudson retain it after the war, possibly until the merger?
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Hornwrecker
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Posted From: 63.41.8.11
Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 1:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mikem, the answer to your question is in box #40 of the wartime assets property disposal section, in the Chicago branch of the National Archives. :-)
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Psip
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Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 1:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mikem, I remember it being abandoned for a long time. There were a lot of Army Vehicles stored there in the late '50s. It became Hydromantic, then Chevrolet.
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Jjaba
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Post Number: 2965
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 2:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now this Old Car Factories thread has moved to War Factories. You are amazing researchers.
It is fascinating that WWII required suburbanization of big plants. Detroit just didn't have the land for expansion, although so many car factories were converted.

Packards, Fords, Hudsons, GM, Chryslers, Dodges, Plymouths, Jeeps. All of these nameplates producing for the War. With the Govt. building plants, we get Tank Arsenals, Munitions Depots, airplane plants, Willow Run, new Ford Rouge Bldgs., engine plants. Wow, Albert Kahn and the guys had plenty of work, eh.

jjaba.
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Psip
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Post Number: 959
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Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 2:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here are a series of the Mound - 9 Mile plant through the years.
1947

1952

1957

1961

1997
WSU

(Message edited by Psip on January 29, 2006)
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Psip
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Post Number: 961
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Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 4:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I received an email from Mike about the boundaries of Center Line, here is his email:

The western Center Line City Limits parallels the railroad tracks and is located 200 feet to the west of the tracks. The southerly limits west of Van Dyke is located along a line that runs down the center of Wood Street and continues straight to where it intersects with the western city limit. That intersection at the southwest corner of the city looks like it occurs within the very northeast corner of the GM Powertrain property, which would mean that technically, a several acre portion of the Naval Ordnance Plant was located in Center Line.
Map 1

map 2
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Psip
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Post Number: 962
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Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 4:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

or another look
Google
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 151
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Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 4:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The location listed for many real-estate parcels is often the post-office address. The "Dearborn" Holiday Inn north of Ford Road has a Dearborn address because it is served by a post office in Dearborn, but it is actually located within the city of Detroit. Wasn't Center Line a village before the remainder of Warren TWP incorporated as a city? If so, then it probably had a Center Line PO.
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Hornwrecker
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Posted From: 63.41.8.29
Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 12:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good work bro! I count at least 14 buildings there, the acreage works out, mil spec housing nearby, as does the info about the mailing address. By George, I think we've got it.

Earlier I posted some info about aircraft engine makers in Detroit, and one of them listed was Warner. Way back on the Continental factory thread (before my time) Mikem posted a map that had Warner Aircraft located at 8 Mile and the GTWRR near Hoover. This must be the same maker (?).

Warner Aircraft map

Photos of Warren Tank Plant soon, since we're on a war footing.
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Mikem
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Posted From: 208.54.94.97
Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That is the same company. Somewhere in my notes I have the approximate years it was owned by Warner (on the road agiain). Early 1930s thru mid 1950s comes to mind. I posted pictures of it on some thread; if not on the Continental thread, then on a thread about Parduccis. Search for Parducci and Hoover Rd. and/or Packard. There was early speculation the plant was built to build diesel aircraft engines.
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Psip
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Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mikem, on your above map, there are 2 streets listed.
Sirron and Rolyat
Being that Hornwrecker and I lived on E. Lantz and Terrell, I though it interesting that those two streets are Norris and Taylor spelled backwards.
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Bate
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Posted From: 71.101.227.115
Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 9:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Many auto manufacturers expanded plants during the war years. Uncle Sam was a great business partner, what with special financing and assistance in land acquisition. Fords Eagle Boat contract with the Navy helped build the Rouge. Even at the time, most would call these "less than adequate" destroyer escorts a hand-out to Ford. Most never made service only to be lend-leased or scrapped, but the plant went on to become Fords key production facility.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 769
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Posted From: 66.2.148.180
Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 11:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit Tank Arsenal

Warren Tank

Warren Tank

Warren Tank

Warren Tank
WSU

http://www.arsenalofdemocracy.org/pages/arsnl_history.htm
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Mikem
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Post Number: 2332
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Posted From: 208.54.14.33
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 12:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/23585/29358.html
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623kraw
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Posted From: 68.41.224.200
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 11:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Tank Plant is still there, just south of the GM Tech Center...
TankPlant1
TankPlant2
TankPlant3
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

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Posted From: 66.2.148.40
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 1:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

While searching for pics of the Nav/Hudson plant, I found this photo of the Ford tank plant on Plymouth Rd. Any idea what became of this plant? Was it the Fordson tractor factory?

Ford Tank,  Plymouth Rd
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56packman
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Post Number: 32
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Posted From: 129.9.163.106
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 1:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think it is still there, it's the Livonia transmission plant now. North side of the street, @ the corner of Middlebelt.
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Raul1983
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Posted From: 80.186.212.176
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 7:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great thread ! It took some time to read all 16 pages of posts ! Maybe I can also participate to keep this interesting subject going. Although I haven't ever visited the US I have an interest towards early American car industry. I have something Detroit related stuff in my collection of old adverts and magazines.

A for Aerocar.

1907 Aerocar. "Built for service", price $2000
1907 Aerocar. "Built for service".

1907 Aerocar. "The gretest value in the 1907 market". Model F water-cooled, Model C air-cooled.
1907 Aerocar. "The greatest value in the 1907 market". Model F water-cooled, Model C air-cooled.

(Message edited by Raul1983 on January 30, 2006)
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

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Posted From: 192.220.139.24
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 7:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Raul 1983. Welcome to The Forum. Your love for Detroit and our products is already apparent.
Keep posting your findings and your interests.

jjaba, Detroit Westsider.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 773
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Posted From: 66.2.149.196
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 11:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome to the OCF thread Raul.

Someone posted a question at the AACA forums asking for any info on Herreshoff, from a boat museum of the same name.

The only info in the db is that Herreshoff (1908-14) used the old Thomas-Detroit factory, which used to be the Modern Match Company factory on Harper and Dequindre. I also have a Woodward Ave location with a question mark in the comments, probably office or sales (?). The factory was vacated when Thomas-Detroit was bought by Chalmers and the operations were probably moved to Oakland Ave in H.P..

Anybody remember anything else? I don't think we found this plant on photos or Sanborn maps yet.
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Psip
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Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 12:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Forgot I had this photo

It is the Hudson Motor Car Co. Hudson Naval Ordnance Plant.
Navy Plant
LOC
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Psip
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Post Number: 981
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Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 12:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

although not very clear, here is a close up of the sign
Sign
to me it looks like it says
US Naval
Ordnance Plant
???
Hudson Motor Car Co.
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Raul1983
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Posted From: 80.186.212.176
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 10:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


1903 CADILLAC. "The engine is very compact and very powerful."


1904 CADILLAC. "The car that climbs"


1904 CADILLAC, "Will go up a 45% grade"


1905 CADILLAC, "The most satisfactory automobile in America"


1907 CADILLAC, The new Cadillac Model G
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 34
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 129.9.163.234
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 11:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Raul1983--Welcome, send more images, me like!
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Raul1983
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Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 11:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was looking at the LIST. It's a great effort from all of you.

I'm not sure are the following companies or addresses mentioned before:


- Eisemann Magnetos => 802 Woodward Avenue

- for Wadsworth Manufacturing Company i have a
address: 1272 Jefferson Avenue.

- Houk Wire Wheels => 433 Leland Street

- Morse Chain Company, manufacturer of silent chains for automobiles (Cadillac, Packard etc.). Main works (in 1921) was in Ithaca, New York but the sprockets for chains were made in 8th and Abbot, Detroit (also office there).
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Raul1983
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Posted From: 80.186.212.176
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 11:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now this is a rare find. Detroit Air Cooled car ad from January 1923. Plant at Wayne, Michigan.


Body of sheet aluminum. Weighs less than 1750 pounds. Standard wheelbase 115".


"The company's plant at Wayne, Michigan is of ample size to carry out contemplated production program and the various models will be delivered in increasing quantities to distributing points already selected."

Sorry about the poor quality of these images. I took these photos with my digital camera.

For larger pictures of ads you can e-mail me: valkila(at)europe.com
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

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Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 2:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I need to drive through Livonia. Hornwrecker's picture of Ford's Livonia tank plant on Plymouth Rd appears to be the same as the one at the bottom of this photo:

Ford Central Parts Depot

Ford built Patton tanks in Livonia during the Korean War. These pictures are from "Ford at Fifty," published for Ford's 50th anniversary. The Central Parts Depot was one of several new plants built after WWII, including assembly plants in Metuchen, NJ, Atlanta, Los Angeles, St Louis, Kansas City, and Wayne. To my eye, the parts depot appears to be this building at Plymouth & Middle Belt Rds:

Ford CPD?

http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?T=4&S=11&Z=17&X=769&Y=11733&W=3



However, the book has this photo of the interior of the tank plant:

Ford Patton Tank

I don't think the Central Parts Depot was converted to tank production or vice versa. There is another factory farther west on Plymouth at Levan Rd. Isn't this the transmission plant? Would this be the one that built Patton tanks?

Ford Transmission/Tank?

http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?T=4&S=10&Z=17&X=1512&Y=23468&W=3
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56packman
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Posted From: 129.9.163.234
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 3:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think you are right re: the Ford Transmission plant being closer to Levan, on Plymouth. The building in these pictures IS the one at Plymouth and Middlebelt, and I'm pretty sure is a Parts distribution warehouse.
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Mikem
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Post Number: 2340
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Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 3:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In the background of Hornwrecker's photo is the Detroit Race Course, placing the location at Plymouth & Middlebelt. Here is the same building in 1952, freshly built:

Ford Parts Depot 1952

Down the road is the other new Ford plant, complete with a test track, similar to the one at the Chrysler tank arsenal, leading me to conclude that the transmission plant was the tank plant, and the Parts Depot - pictured in Hornwrecker's post - has been mis-identified by the WSU archives and/or The Detroit News:

Ford Patton Tank 1952


The track is still there today:

Ford Transmission Livonia

I don't know if the plant was built specifically to build tanks or transmissions. At the time, Ford's new Kansas City assembly plant, completed in January 1951, was diverted to building wing sections for B-47 bombers and it wasn't until 1957 before auto assembly began there. Ford also did defense work at the "new" Wayne Mercury factory and in several other plants around the country during the early 1950s.
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Dodgemain
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Username: Dodgemain

Post Number: 82
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Posted From: 68.41.191.58
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 5:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DCX either owns or leases that Plymouth and Middlebelt factory. There was talk at Jeep and Truck engineering around 2000 of splitting up truck engineering and putting either Dodge or Jeep engineering there. It didn't happen. There was about 1000 Jeeps stored there a few years back.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3001
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 9:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MikeM, the Detroit Race Course is at Schoolcraft and Middlebelt, Livonia.

jjaba.
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Mikem
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Post Number: 2348
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 9:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Right jjaba. I said it was in the background, meaning to the northeast. BTW, it's no longer there.

DRC


I'm also wondering why all the busses are parked across the street on the grounds of National Airport (future Wonderland Mall). At first I thought there was a tour group at the warehouse, but then looking at the way they are parked, it looks more like the city is using it for storage:

busses

Hangars at National Airport in 1949, as seen in the picture above:

National Airport


Barley visible on the far right side of Hornwrecker's picture is Chevy's Livonia transmission plant, with its checkerboard water tank, but I can't tell if it was before or after the 1953 fire that destroyed half of it.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 777
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 66.2.149.65
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 11:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice work from the Detroit Reconnaissance Office, that is, if it exists, which we can neither confirm, nor deny. Another WSU mis-identified photo corrected.

Raul1983, I've put those addresses into the OCF database. Thanks, always on the lookout for more info. Photos for this website are limited to 550 x 550 pixels, and less than 50k, in case you need to do any tweaking of them. And thanks for the DAC ads, the only thing from the db to add is that they had a place at 3745 Cass, and the Wayne, MI factory may have been Swift before, although I can find no mention of Swift, or if they ever made an automobile.

I found a pamphlet online for Herreshoff, and a mention that they became Herreshoff-Troy (NY?) in 1914.

1909 Herreshoff NYPL

Something else that might be of interest is a free photo program that does some interesting things. It is a small download, 1.9 Mb, and did I mention that it is free. There is a plug-in on that page, fractal interpolation, that may be of use working with aerial photos. I'm still playing around with it, but it does seem to do sharpening and smoothing better than PS7.

http://meesoft.logicnet.dk/Ana lyzer/
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Raul1983
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Username: Raul1983

Post Number: 5
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 80.186.212.176
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 2:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hornwrecker, there's a great selection of other old car brochures too in NYPL website. I recommend.

1909 Packard Truck:

http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/dgkeysearchresult.cfm?parent_id=453604&word=

1909 Ford parts catalog:
http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/dgkeysearchresult.cfm?parent_id=454920&word=

Yes I have to convert all pictures to "tiny" ones. In real life they are much bigger (several megabites).


1929 Essex Challenger. Available with more than 225 color combinations.


1929 Fargo truck. Chrysler Motors Product. Available with new color options (a theme in 1929??).
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 779
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 66.2.148.66
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 2:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like the B&W ads for color cars.

Found another gallery on the NYPL site:

Photographs of General Motors Cars and Trucks, 1902-1938

Also a couple of other non-GM photos.

Another photo found there is an old sterephoto, labelled "Experts testing engines in an automobile plant, Detroit, Mich", cleaned up and now in mono-vision.

Engine testing in unknown factory

Now the question is: what kind of engines are these and what factory?
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 39
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 129.9.163.234
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 2:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cadillac V-8, after 1914 model year
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3008
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 3:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

56packman, you're killing us. Incredible strike. You hit a homer with that one. Welcome to The Forum and this thread.
jjaba, Westsider.
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 41
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 129.9.163.234
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 3:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

56packman--the walking dictionary of (comercially) useless knowledge!
Packard is my wheelhouse, but I read up on the others.
P.S. Jjaba--I grew up in the "nor-west corner of D-troit" 7-Evergreen
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2350
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Going back to the Hudson Naval arsenal, I take it these pictures of motar round production at "Chevrolet Warren" are in the same plant. Was transmission production going on at the same time in another part of the plant or was the entire plant dedicated to defense production? The year is 1967; was there any automotive production between the end of WWII and the Viet Nam era defense work?

Chevrolet Warren 1967

Chevrolet Warren 2

Chevrolet Warren 3
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Psip
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Username: Psip

Post Number: 991
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 10:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wonder if that may have been at the Tech Center?
Is that LTV plant on Van Dyke in Warren or is that Sterling Hgts?
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 1
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Posted From: 69.136.155.244
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 12:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Back in the late 1960's and into the 80's, what is now the GM Powertrain Plant at 9 Mile and Mound was operated by Chevrolet. I had a college buddy who started working there as a co-op in 1970 and back then he said that in addition to the ordnance work, that plant made heavy stampings for a variety of uses, as well as Hydramatic transmission components.

As a result of the major reorganizations within GM in the late 1980's, that plant was assigned to the GM Powertrain Division. I do not know how long the ordnance production continued.
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2351
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Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 12:31 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi MikeG, welcome to the forum! Thanks for that information; it helps to fill the gaps.

I wish we would get more former or retired auto wokers to chime in here.

Found this about the purchase of a Briggs plant by Packard. Must be the one on Conner near Warren that was discussed earlier:


quote:

Nance, James J. (Packard) In 1950 President Hugh J. Ferry contacts James J. Nance regarding the top spot at Packard. Two years later, in 1952, Nance becomes Packard's President and starts a reorganization process determined to restore Packard's prominence by merging several viable car companies together into one large company. Nance's first act is to focus on the luxury car market which had been neglected. To save the image of the top-of-the-line Packards, Nance reintroduces the name Clipper which is relegated to the lower-priced line. For a time, especially in early 1953, Packard turns around and appears starting up the ladder of success. By year's end, however, the gains have been lost, the victim of an industry downturn. The same year Briggs is sold to Chrysler, and Packard loses its body-making connection. To make matters even worse, the merger of many companies into one fails, and only Studebaker remains as a possible "partner" for Packard. Studebaker, though, is in terrible financial condition and is a poor choice for Packard. Acting on bad advice, Nance proceeds with the merger which, in reality, is nothing more than a purchase of Studebaker by Packard. It is a poor business decision by Packard, and it plunges the company into a pit from which it can never emerge. The Studebaker-Packard deal is completed in October, 1954, and the end is already in sight. Studebaker, with all of its labor and production problems, simply cannot make a profit. Moreover, it drains off huge amounts of operating capital, and, while Packard might have made it on its own, with Studebaker it cannot survive. Still Nance continues to focus on the big picture, and, as one stock holder put it, he ties Packard to a sinking ship, trying to save one sinking ship by tying it to another sinking ship. The analogy is absolutely correct except that Studebaker's hole is a lot bigger than Packard's hole, and it is Studebaker that pulls Packard under. In 1954 things at Packard are perilious at best. There are too many decisions to be made and too many opportunities for making bad choices. Nance's worst decision ever is to buy the Briggs plant. He abandons the old, but very large and functional, Packard factory for a newer, but much smaller and inefficient, factory once operated by Briggs. It is not the old Briggs plant where Packard bodies had been made but a smaller one ill-equipped for making car bodies. Production at the new plant plunges, and a ton of money is wasted in a move that is a giant step backward. Most of Packard's production is lost, and the constant grasping at straws is producing the inevitable end. One last straw is the 1956 program whereby Curtis-Wright will manage Studebaker-Packard. A lot of promises are made, but Packard is the sacrificial lamb. Jim Nance resigns, and leadership passes to Harold Churchill of Studebaker.


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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 69.136.155.244
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 12:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, MikeM!

Regarding earlier question of which two Ford Livonia Plants produced the tanks, I believe that it has been settled correctly. However, another way to confirm it is the fact that the aerial photos clearly show that only one of the two plants has high bay areas on the roof. The interior shot shows the overhead crane running up and down in a high-bay area over the tank turret mounting area.

MikeG
http://grobbel.org
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2352
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 1:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Details, details! Thank you Mike. Looking at the aerials, I also see the plant has had a significant addition to the north end since it was built.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 780
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 66.2.148.20
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 1:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome, Mikeg, happy to have another Eastsider to stem the rising tide of Westies on this forum. I also count anyone East, to the International Dateline as Eastsiders, so our new European members will have some thread cred.

Good ID on the engine 56packman, I should have also asked which plant, and who was in the photo. I'm going to have to come up with some prizes for the OCF Quiz. I think I have an old DeSoto badge lying around here somewhere... if I find it... I'll post a photo of it, suitable for framing.

OCF Thread Admin Stuff
Still searching for some type of inter-active mapping thingee to put the OCF db into. Is this something that our fearless leader would know about? Another thing might be adding an OCF admin page, for db updates, organizing questions, etc..., and maybe an index page for maps and photos (if I ever get started on it). Super thread this sucker? Lowell???
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Psip
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Username: Psip

Post Number: 1000
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 3:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Figured this would be a good place to make my 1000th post.
Oh, and a cool pix.
40 Seconds
GM Photographic
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Raul1983
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Username: Raul1983

Post Number: 6
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 80.186.212.176
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 7:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hornwrecker, I'm making a list of companies that are not in the LIST. But my list is getting huge. I'm not sure should I include car parts shops, small garages and metal (die cast) companies to my list ? I'm browsing old car magazines that I have (starting from 1916) and there are quite a few ads for all-sorts of auto products from Detroit.

What do you think I should do ??

(Message edited by Raul1983 on February 03, 2006)
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 786
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 66.2.148.159
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 2:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Raul1983, currently there are about 50 parts/motor suppliers listed in the OCF database. It is in an Excel spreadsheet format, Excel 2000 Windows.

I could send you a copy of it so you could enter the suppliers, and then send a copy of it back to me so that I can keep the up to date version. Another way would be to send me the list, and I can input the data. Current columns on the spreadsheet are Name, Type, Dates Existing, Address, Fate of the Building, Photo or Map in OCF, and Comments (ownership changes, products made, etc...).

My email is: my username at gmail.com

I found the motherlode of Cadillac info which will allow me to make some sense of a lot of early (Leland era) factory photos that I've found.


Cadillac db Photopages
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Raul1983
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Username: Raul1983

Post Number: 7
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 80.186.212.176
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 8:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


1903 Ford, "Boss Of The Road"


1904 Ford


1905 Ford Model F, "Don't experiment, just buy a Ford"
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 788
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 66.2.148.176
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 11:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I found some early Cadillac ads showing the factories.

The first is of the Cadillac/Leland and Faulconer factory (maybe the old Detroit Auto Co. factory on Amsterdam and Cass, as the building looks like a photo I posted awhile back of the DAC).

Cadillac/Leland Trombley factory



The next is from 1908 showing two factories.

Cadillac factories 1908-1
Cadillac factories 1908-2

The next on was labelled as 1902, which is obviously wrong, so I'm guessing that it is from after or around WWI. Is the third building pictured the Riopelle and Warren factory?


Cadillac factories 1
Cadillac factories 2

A color postcard of the same drawings, with a different factory pictured in the third spot, looks like the Fleetwood on Fort

Cadillac factories 1
Cadillac factories 2

The bottom drawing labelled Material Warehouse must be Plant #4 on Custer and John R.

Cadillac #4 Custer and John R



(Message edited by Hornwrecker on February 03, 2006)
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 789
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 66.2.148.194
Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 2:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I remembered an old photo that I posted a few pages back of a Cadillac factory from the LOC. Using that new photo program that I linked to a few posts ago, I managed to clean it up quite a bit.

Looks like the first building on the postcard, two water tanks, and it seems that there is a small railroad station on the left side, note the baggage cart, and semaphore signal.

Early Cadillac Factory
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Raul1983
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Username: Raul1983

Post Number: 8
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Posted From: 80.186.212.176
Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 3:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

4 page Hupmobile ad from 1923.


"This year to be greater than 1922"


"Hupmobile bodies must be worthy in every way of the Hupmobile chassis"


"It is a fact that the Hupmobile costs less to operate and to maintain than many cars whose first appeal is price"


"There could be no more opportune time than now, for a public expression regarding the success of Hupmobile dealers during the last year. We cannot express fully our sincere feeling in this matter other than by stating our deep conviction that the Hupmobile dealer organization is the finest organization of its kind in existence. We congratulate them upon the wonderful record of the year just ended; and we pledge our-selves to operate with them in every way to the end that the coming year will bring them still greater success."
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 170
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 10:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hornwrecker: Doubtful about that building being a passenger facility. The most likely purpose for a "baggage cart" is for loading or unloading goods at a public or private "team track." In case someone desires to get an image of an ancient team-track sign, go west of the tracks on the south side of Michigan Avenue near Clark Street. There's a barely visible sign near a (brick?) street or alley there, unless progress took it away.

There's still other remnants of some of the many dozens of former team tracks. The concept of "team" tracks parallels the origin of the word "teamsters" who drove their teams of horses or mules in the 1800s.


(Message edited by livernoisyard on February 05, 2006)
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 796
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 66.2.148.227
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 2:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livernoisyard: It could be some kind of team track, or maybe a lcl type thing like REA. I've never seen platforms between the tracks at a team track that I remember, but looking at the photo the wooden platforms cross the street and continue on the other side. I wish the photo showed a bit more, as is usually the case in these things. Interesting.

There still is an active team track on the old GTWRR at 8 Mile near Hoover, right behind the old lumberyard, or what is marked as Warner Aircraft on that old map above. I've often seen beer being unloaded there a few years ago. Not sure if it is currently active.
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Raul1983
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Username: Raul1983

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Posted From: 80.186.212.176
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is a list of companies recently added to the db along with a short description. These companies were found from old car magazines.

-------------------------------------------------
AHLBERG BEARING CO.
- ball bearings for automobiles
- Detroit Office: 790 Woodward Avenue (1916)

AINSWORTH MANUFACTURING COMPANY
- windshields and visors
- Detroit, address unknown (1923)

AUTOMOBILE RADIO CORPORATION
- ”Transitone” auto radio
- 21st Floor Fisher Building, Detroit (1929)

AXTON-COZINE MANUFACTURING COMPANY
- ”Cozine” side curtains for automobiles
- 2206 Twelth Street, Detroit (1921)

DETROIT ACCESSORIES CORPORATION
- ”Detroit” motor-driven tire-pump for automobiles
- 519 Hillger Avenue, Detroit (1916)

DETROIT GARAGE EQUIPMENT COMPANY
- service tools (cylinder reboring etc.)
- Detroit, address unknown (1921)

DISCO ELECTRIC STARTER CORPORATION
- electric starting and lighting system for Ford T
- Detroit, address unknown (1916)

DITZLER COLOR COMPANY
- Ditz-Lac car paint
- Detroit, address unknown (1929)

DURANT MOTORS INCORPORATED
- Durant motor cars
- 5057 Woodward Avenue, Detroit (1929)

ELECTRIC AUTO-LITE CORPORATION
- ”Auto-Lite” starting, lighting and ignition
- Detroit sales office: 1507 Kresge Building (1921)

EVAPCO MANUFACTURING CO.
- gas saver, saves 30 to 50% gasoline
- 427 Grand River Avenue, Detroit (1916)

GREENFIELD TAP & DIE CORPORATION
- automotive tools
- 228 Congress Street, West, Detroit (1929)

HARRY SVENSGAARD SALES CORPORATION
- streamline hood and radiator shell for Ford T
- office: 214 Jefferson Avenue, West, Detroit
- factory: Ionia, Michigan (1916)

HOUDAILLE-HERSHEY CORPORATION
- shock absorbers
- General sales office: 8635 Conant Road, Detroit
- plant in Detroit, address unknown (1929)

HOYT METAL COMPANY
- white metal alloy for bearings
- 308 Moffatt Building, Detroit (1916)

HUTTO ENGINEERING COMPANY, INC.
- “Hutto” cylinder grinder
- 535 Lycaste Avenue, Detroit (1929)

KALES STAMPING COMPANY
- “Kales Hindview” auto mirrors
- 1672 Lafayette Blvd., West, Detroit
- Canadian Plant in Walkerville, Ontario (1921)

KEMBE INCORPORATED
- tire pop valves
- General Motors Building, Detroit (1929)

LINK-BELT COMPANY
- automotive silent chain
- Detroit, address unknown (1929)

LONG MANUFACTURING CO.
- “Long” cooling systems for motor cars and trucks
- Detroit, address unknown (1916)

MELVILLE MACHINE CO.
- foot-rest (eliminates accidental acceleration)
- 500 Bellevue Avenue (1923)

MICHIGAN AUTO TRAILER CO.
- “Matco” trailer
- 220-224 Twenty-First Street, Detroit (1916)

NEW DEPARTURE MANUFACTURING COMPANY
- New Departure ball bearings
- Detroit, address unknown (1923)

NEW ERA SPRING & SPECIALTY COMPANY
- “New Era” leaf springs for automobiles
- 879 Woodward Avenue, Detroit (1916)

O-SO-EZY PRODUCTS CO.
- cedar oil polish for automobiles
- 264-266-268 Jefferson Avenue, Detroit (1916)

PARISH MANUFACTURING CORPORATION
- foundation frames (for heavy trucks)
- Detroit, address unknown (1921)

SHARPE ELECTRIC APPLIANCE CO.
- electric radiator heater for automobiles
- 502-504-506 Murphy Building, Detroit (1921)

THOMPSON PRODUCTS INCORPORATED
- valves, bolts, pistons, pins
- factory at Detroit, address unknown (1929)

UNITED SMELTING & ALUMINUM CO
- aluminum sheets
- Penobscot Building, Detroit (1916)

UNIVERSAL TRANS-LEVER SPRING COMPANY
- springs for Fords
- 14th and Howard Streets, Detroit (1921)

WINKLEY COMPANY
- Winkley Hub Caps
- Detroit, address unknown
- Windsor, Ontario (1916)

WYMAN-GORDON
- crankshafts
- Detroit, address unknown (1923)

ZAPON LEATHER CLOTH COMPANY
- leather cloths (to convert open car to sedan)
- branch: 808 Union Trust Building, Detroit (1923)

(Message edited by Raul1983 on February 06, 2006)
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 182
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 11:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Re: Team/LCL (less-than-carload) tracks:

Those long platforms could have been used to load cars on the adjoining track without having having to break up the consist. Or, perhaps, they could be used to transfer freight to/from tracks within a small factory yard instead of using classification/hump tracks.

Luck would have it, but the topic of team tracks just happened to come up yesterday in the historical pages on michiganrailroads.com:

Team Track Question

There's also a potentially interesting thread there that as yet has no responders:
Photos of Old buildings on Tracks -GLHA-Contractor 2/5/2006, 5:33 pm
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 797
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 66.2.148.86
Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 1:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Aw jeez, not another forum. I'll take a look at it.

Time to see if all those photos I inputted last night, and then found out the forum was down, will work.

The following photos are from DPL/NAHC of the Cadillac factory from the Leland era. Not all of the photos are identified as to which plant, but give a good representation of how things were back then.

early Cadillac radiator badge


Cadillac factory Leland era

Cadillac factory Leland era

Leland and Faulconer machine

Cadillac factory Leland era machine shop

Cadillac factory Leland era machine shop

Cadillac factory Leland era machine shop turret lathes

That's a hell of a lot of turret lathes in the last photo, for the time. The close-up in the third photo is of some kind of grinding machine, with Leland & Faulconer Mfg Co. cast into the access panel.

That was part one, another bunch of them coming soon.

Looking at Durant a bit, I'm not sure if they had any factories in the immediate Detroit area. The closest I've found so far is in Flint.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 798
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 216.203.223.115
Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 11:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, here's part II again...

Part Two of Cadillac, Leland era.

Cadillac factory Leland era Radiator

Cadillac factory Leland era Radiator

Cadillac factory Leland era Gas tanks

Cadillac factory Leland era Foundry

Cadillac factory Leland era Final inspection dept

Cadillac factory Leland era Single cylinger repair

Cadillac factory Leland era


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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 799
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 216.203.223.115
Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 12:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

(Sven asked yesterday afternoon about going to look at Sanborn maps this weekend, and if we had any special requests.)

Sven, a few of ones that I'd like to see cleared up, and they might be early enough to be before the black hole of the first decade or a bit later are:


Briscoe: initially making body parts, later joined with Maxwell to form Maxwell-Briscoe. I know Maxwell was on Oakand in HP, but it's been mentioned that Brush first occupied the former Briscoe factory before moving to HP with US Motors on Oakland. I've found three drawings of other M-B plants on the far Eastside: NY, Mass, and RI, but none in Michigan from the time, only when it became Maxwell in HP.

Commerce somewhere on Solvay St, with a date of 1922.

Detroit Steam Car made in the Schlieder Mfg factory, 1922-23

Doble-Detroit 4th and Porter in the General Engineering Co factory which may have been there before and after the 1914-17 dates.

Michigan Motor Car 1910-? ???????????????????????????

Nelson Bellevue and Kercheval 1917-21

Pilgrim 1915-18 somewhere in Highland Park.

Thomas-Detroit: occupied the former Modern Match Co factory on Harper and Dequindre from 1906-08. Maybe the match company will show up on earlier map books.

That's all of the automakers I can think of right now . There are a whole lot in the other categories. If you have a copy of the spreadsheet, the holes are obvious, although I don't have all of the Sanborn maps listed per entry yet.

`'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``
`'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``

I've been getting some emails since I started shilling this thread at the AACA forum.

I've really been enjoying all your work on the Old Car Factories thread. The amount of car realted industry is just amazing.

For the guys in the AACA Packard forum...

Packard PT Boat  Ad

(If I was still in the Navy, that's what I'd get a tattoo of, if I had a bicep big enough and got tattoos)


(Message edited by Hornwrecker on February 09, 2006)
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 69.136.155.244
Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Psip & Jjaba,

The Chevrolet billboard image that was Psip's 1,000th post has been moved to this location:
http://www.gmphotostore.com/pr odinfo.asp?number=53217356

The caption reads:

"1939 New Center in Detroit - This 1939 image was shot from a window in the Fisher Building overlooking West Grand Boulevard and Second Avenue."
-----------------------
As a GM retiree, Mikeg thinks that the "GM Photo Store" is a good idea - GM needs to continue finding additional imaginative ways of using their assets to generate cash.
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Mikem
Member
Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2385
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 2:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I posted something similar yesterday before the switch to the new server, but it was lost in the process.

After discussing the Ford plants on Plymouth Rd in Livonia, I was interested about this factory labeled by the WSU archives as "Chevrolet Livonia Spring & Bumper"

Chevrolet Livonia Spring & Bumper

I was under the impression that when the GM Hydra-Matic factory in Livonia burned down, it was rebuilt and continued to make GM transmissions there, even though I knew that Hydra-Matic production was moved to the Kaiser-Frazer Willow Run assembly plant (former Ford bomber factory). I never realized the severity of the fire, killing six and ranking as the largest fire in the Detroit area at the time, or that the plant had been in production only two weeks before the August 1953 fire. More details here: http://www.autotran.us/TheGreatHydraMaticFire

Here's an aerial view from 1952 while the plant was still under construction:

Hydramatic 1952


And a view from 1957, after a new plant was erected, with the outline of the destroyed plant superimposed:

GM Livonia 1957

Before my original psot was lost, MikeG pointed out that the new plant was a Fisher Body trim factory. The outline of the factory doesn't seem to match the Spring & Bumper plant pictured above. Was there another GM or Chevrolet factory in Livonia?

I drove past the plant last week and I see it has been converted into the Plymouth Road Technical Center:

http://www.oliverhatcher.com/whatwebuild.cfm

quote:

"Plymouth Road Technical Center (size: 1.2 Million S.F.) was formerly a plant of an automotive supplier and earlier, a GM Fisher Body plant.

Raising 300,000 sq. ft. of the roof a total of 15 ft. was undertaken to provide the 30 ft. ceiling clearance needed for contemporary warehouse logistics, along with adding 93 truck loading docks.

Noted in Engineering News Record as one of the largest and heaviest roof lifts attempted in the U.S., it utilized hydraulic jacks at each of 90 columns. Roof weight at 46 psf totaled 3,450 tons, equivalent to 11 Boeing 747 aircraft. Site work included new storm water system, adding multiple entrances, grading, paving and landscaping. The powerhouse and other auxiliary buildings were demolished."












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Mikem
Member
Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2386
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 3:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Never mind, I found what I was looking for. I see it was at the northeast corner of Eckles and Ahmrein, most recently called the Delphi Livonia Chassis plant.

1961:

Livonia Chassis 1961

Zooming in on the west side, and rotating it counter-clockwise to match the Chevrolet Spring & Bumper photo:





Demolished in the past few years:

2003
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3045
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 4:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What amazes jjaba is that in yr. 2000, Livonia, Michigan is the whitest city under the 100,000 population in the United States.

Obviously, with an integrated workforce of Ford, Chrysler, and General Motors plus Delphi later, black people couldn't buy a home in the same city.

This sounds like a modern version of Henry Ford's visions for Dearborn. "Keep Livonia Clean" should be written on their garbage trucks.

jjaba, social commentary.
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Hornwrecker
Member
Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 801
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.8.5
Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Damn, I forgot to add to my earlier post that I did a save of the OCF thread, so I have every post up to 2204 last night. (I have the all 17 pages just in case, and it makes working on the db easier.)

If anyone wants me to repost anything that was lost, let me know.
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Raul1983
Member
Username: Raul1983

Post Number: 10
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 80.186.212.176
Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 4:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


1912 Hupp-Yeats, "a car of French design of the very latest fashion"


1919 Maxwell, "12 000 men, 8 great plants, and a capital of $36,000,000 are making your Maxwell"
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Mikem
Member
Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2389
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 5:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Found this in a document about pollution in the auto industry:

quote:

Phytoremediation at former Detroit Forge plant. The former Detroit Forge plant produced automotive crankshafts, connecting rods, rear axle drive shafts and gears beginning in 1925. The plant was decommissioned in 1989.

Lead-impacted soil was detected during environmental investigations of the former above ground storage tank area of the property.

Feasibility studies were conducted to determine cost-effective alternatives for remediation of the soil. Landfilling was cost prohibitive because once excavated, the soil would be classified as a hazardous waste (lead) for disposal.

Phytoremediation was selected as the best method. Simply stated, phytoremediation is a process using vegetation to extract contaminants from soil or groundwater. At Detroit Forge, two types of plants (sunflowers and mustard plants) were used to extract the bio-available lead from the soil. Preparation of the site to facilitate the phytoremediation activities included construction of a treatment cell with drainage and irrigation systems.

The impacted soil was excavated and placed in the treatment cell, and two series of crops were planted and harvested during the growing season of 1998. Following harvesting of the crops, the soil was re-sampled to verify the effectiveness of the remediation. The now nonhazardous soil met the clean-up criteria for the site and was then returned to the excavated area. The harvested crops were also non-hazardous and were landfilled off-site.

On-site remediation of the lead-impacted soil versus off-site disposal resulted in saving significant landfill space as well as disposal cost for hazardous waste.



Chrysler Detroit Forge, 6600 Lynch Rd

The address squeezes it between Eldon Ave Axle on the east and Plymouth Lynch Rd Assembly on the west. We've gone over this before, but looking at a 1961 aerial, I'm not sure if the pie-shaped piece at the top, where 6600 Lynch Rd would be, is a parking lot or a building, or more likely, if the address refers to the much larger outlined building in the center. If so, I was under the impression that that was the Winfield Ave Foundry, Winfield being the short north-south street on the southeast side of the complex. If not, then Winfield must have been either the east end of the Detroit Forge, or the small building east of Winfield Ave:

Detroit Forge 1961?

The 2003 view with the large empty center and the Huber Ave Foundry, built in 1962, on the south side:

Detroit Forge 2003
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