  Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker Post Number: 1522 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 66.2.148.144 |
The Sanborn for Silverstine's! 1949, around 6660 E SIX MILE.  | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 1051 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Did Tucker or Auburn ever have manufacturing plants in Detroit? Livedog2 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 553 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 65.185.132.134 |
NO-Tucker's 50 (well, around 53) cars were made at a former WWII aircraft plant in Chicago, leased by Chrysler to Tucker. Auburn automobiles were built in Auburn, Indiana, in the plant behind the factory administration facility that is now the Auburn-Cord-Duesenberg museum in Auburn. next weekend is the annual ACD reunion in Auburn, I'll be there on Saturday to see the ACD cars in the park, then the auction hooey at the Kruse park south of town in the afternoon. Some Auburn bodies were built in Connersville, IN,, where Cords were built. Duesenberg had their factory in Indianapolis. At one time Indiana had five automobile manufacturers. They had: Auburn Cord Duesenberg--all of the above were under the ownership of E.L. Cord (he bought Auburn and Duesenberg, started Cord) Marmon (Indianopolis) Studebaker (South Bend) (Message edited by 56packman on August 30, 2006) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 59 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 69.246.123.152 |
What's the skinny on the ACD museum? I'm thinking about checking it out this weekend. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1325 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
1947 was when Ford died. So it seems that the major reason for still building farm tractors was Ford's desire to make them. He dies... no more tractor production. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 558 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 129.9.163.233 |
Cambrian--the ACD museum is fantastic. It is the original 1933 headquarters/showroom that ACD built, beautifully restored, stocked with very significant cars and artifacts. The "scream-dream" art deco design (TRUE art deco) has been well preserved, and restored. This weekend is going to be a madhouse with the festival--hundreds of thousands of people coming into town. If you can hang with that, and all of the minor inconvniences that go with it, you'll have a good time--if not, you may wish to go some other weekend. While you are there, check out the Auburn hotel (right downtown, across from the courthouse) it is a 1920's small two-story hotel, that has remained virtually unchanged since it opened. It is only open one week a year,this week, and is where all of the ACD club diehards stay. There is a common bathroom at the end of the hall, none in the guest rooms (as used to be the case with old, small hotels) it's right out of "the Shining". The old guy from Indiana who owned it for decades died a few years back, and an ACD club guy from NY state bought the place to keep it as-is, and he has actually fixed some parts up. check out the museum at www.acdmuseum.org | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Iowaboy Member Username: Iowaboy Post Number: 24 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 150.148.0.28 |
Ford and Ferguson parted ways in 1947. Tractor production did not stop; Ford continued to make tractors for many years after that. Ferguson set up his own assembly plant in Detroit. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
31ford Member Username: 31ford Post Number: 279 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 65.35.101.203 |
the 8N, 9N, NAA, Golden Jubilee etc...... I wouldn't mind having a 9N Ford Tractor to go along with my old Fords.... | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 85 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 75.10.91.78 |
ACD Museum and the Parade were fantastic! We had such a wonderful time. Great suggestion 56PackMan! The truck museum behind the ACD museum was cool too. I loved the Interational Harvester Truck collection they had in the basement. At that museum there was a 1945 Massey Harris Combine Parts Catalog, they listed thier HQs in Racine WI. No plants in Detroit, that must have been where Ferguson came in to the picture in 1947? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker Post Number: 1587 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 66.19.22.135 |
I don't think that this Fisher Body factory on Clay, near the GTW RR tracks has been covered before. This is from the 1915 Sanborn map, the plant across the tracks is the Detroit White Lead Co. I'm guessing that where it was is now under Hamtramack Drive, around the Poletown factory.  This looks like it was the main body assembly facility, with both wood and metal working; also an area for soldering/lead filling the body joints. I haven't been able to find anything more on this. Link to Fisher Body page: http://www.geocities.com/sponcom26/index.html | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 2828 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.15.105 |
No we haven't covered this one before, and I can't find anything either. Here are aerials from 1949,1981, and 2003:    http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?T=4&S=10&Z=17&X=1654&Y=23470&W=3 The clearing of Poletown is well under way in 1981 and that's the Jewish cemetery preserved in the bottom right corner. I suspect this isn't the same building or else it had been extensively altered prior to 1949. Maybe Fisher was on that empty triangle to the west of this factory. The only listing I have in Polks (1940) for that stretch of Clay is for a Racine Foundry & Manufacturing Co at 2301 Clay. In the '46 Yellow Pages, they claim to be "One of the largest non-ferrous jobbing foundries in the state". By 1961, they had moved to 6463 E Warren, near the south end of the Packard complex, and in 1967 they can be found at 831 E Lewiston, Ferndale (perhaps just the office and the dirty work was still being done in the city). Going the other way in time to 1925, they were located at 6535 Dubois, between Milwaukee and E Grand Boulevard. Either they moved into Fisher in the late '20s/early '30s when Fisher moved on, or they were located next door and Fisher was long gone even before 1949. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker Post Number: 1589 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 66.19.22.135 |
I think that the Fisher Clay Ave plant was that empty triangle, where the semi trailers are parked in that second photo, going by the street arrangements. I'll have another look at the maps to see what the other plant was to the east of this one. Interesting, not often we come up with something like this anymore, since this thread started. Another thing is that this factory doesn't have a number, like the others in the area and from this time period. This was a large factory, 3 stories, and from what I gather from looking at the operations they did there, it was a final coachwork ing plant, with extensive lumber drying and storage. (Message edited by Hornwrecker on September 12, 2006) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 1572 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.122.57 |
He gleans auto industry's story: Royal Oak author sets up book fair "Charlie Hyde never imagined he'd grow up prowling through decaying factories, 19th-Century lighthouses and Upper Peninsula copper mines. When teachers asked students what they wanted to be, Hyde did not answer industrial archaeologist. But that is what he has become. It is the kind of quirky profession that allows Hyde, 61, of Royal Oak to study such matters as the X-rated bathroom graffiti at the old Dodge Main factory in Hamtramck. His love for auto-history arcana has led him to organize a gathering of automobile authors this Saturday at the Skillman branch of the Detroit Public Library. Hyde, a history professor at Wayne State University, says he and others arranged the event to celebrate the region's automotive historians and draw public attention to the library's prestigious National Automotive History Collection. From noon to 4 p.m., 22 authors of books on cars, trucks, airplanes and ships will gather at the Automotive History Authors Day and Book Fair to talk about their work and sell and sign their books. Hyde will be among them, having written nine books; his latest is on the Dodge brothers. It's a trade he grew interested in after moving to Detroit and discovering the old factories. "I was face-to-face with the physical remains of Detroit's auto industry when it was at the peak of its prosperity, and that really led me into learning more," he said. ... One of his stranger experiences was at the Dodge Main plant in fall 1981, months after the workers left. He found tools and clothes and Christmas trees left behind. ..." Full article at: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060913/NEW S03/609130382/1005 For a complete list of authors slated to appear, see my August 23rd posting above. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 92 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 75.10.91.78 |
I met an interesting old fellow last weekend who told me he took GM's buyout package last June and finally decided to retire after 64 years of service. This means he would have opted for war time production work instead of war duty. He's gotta have some interesting stories to tell. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Bob_cosgrove Member Username: Bob_cosgrove Post Number: 356 Registered: 03-2005 |
As a result of having his photograph taken by newspaper photographers in front of historic structures that were later demolished, Charlie Hyde among his historian friends is kiddingly known as the "Dr. Kevorkian of Historic Preservation." Bob Cosgrove | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 2843 Registered: 10-2003 |
Funny. Maybe I'll have him sign my copy of "Riding the Roller Coaster" as Dr Hyde. Thanks for the heads up Kathleen. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 621 Registered: 11-2003 |
Ford made tractors at HP until 1973, and elsewhere (where?) until the business was spun off (by then called Ford-New Holland) in 1991 to FIAT. Sven77 asked about Flint and Lansing old car factories-- oh man, a whole super-thread could be written about that. I know this is a Detroit board but it's impossible to separate the history of Flint and Lansing GM plants from Detroit. The Flint V8 Engine Plant (opened ca. '53 by Chevy) was torn down several years ago. Partially on its site is the new L6/V6 Flint Engine South plant. The Flint Truck Plant (originally Chevy Flint Assembly / Fisher Body 2) opened in 1947. Flint Metal Center (originally Chevy Frame & Stamping) opened in '53 or '54. The oldest factories remaining in Flint are at Delphi East (ex-AC Spark Plug) and GM Powertrain Flint North (ex-Buick). Delphi has a few buildings dating to the '20s, and the first factory built after GM was incorporated in 1908 is at GMPT Flint North (although closed for a couple years now). Well over half the floor space at Flint North/Buick City has been demolished. The other auto plants in the Flint area: GM Flint Tool & Die (Plant 38): One of only two remaining buildings at Chevy in the Hole (where Chevrolet assembly and Fisher #2 originally were). The other is Building 35 (where the first Corvette prototype was built), which was gutted, expanded, and turned into a fuel cell research facility for Kettering Univ. GM Grand Blanc Metal Center: Now basically just a weld tool center. This was built to build tanks in WWII, and later was operated by Fisher Body. GM SPO Flint: Opened ca. 1959 as Chevrolet National Parts Distribution. Later the world HQ of GM Parts Division. Fisher Body #1 closed in '87 and was torn down except for the Admin. Bldg. and several buildings which were gutted and turned into the Great Lakes Technology Centre. AC Spark Plug Industrial Ave. Plant closed circa '75 and was torn down. Ternstedt Coldwater Rd. Plant (built ca. 53 to make jet engines for Buick for the Korean War, never used for that purpose and later operated by Fisher Body / Fisher Guide / Inland Fisher Guide / Delphi / Peregrine) has been torn down. As for Lansing: Lansing Car Assembly Plant #1 (Oldsmobile downtown plants) is in the process of being demolished, except for the (1960's-built) administration buildings, some space in which is empty and some of it is used by the 2001-opened Lansing Grand River Caddy (Plant 7). LGR required the demolition of some old Oldsmobile buildings, and the rest is getting obliterated now. There's some pretty old stuff getting knocked down. Fisher Body (bought by GM in '35, originally Durant Motors)/ LCA Plant #6 is also being completely demolished. GM SPO Lansing (Oldsmobile Plant 4, built ca. '59) is still in use. Olds Delta Twp. Diesel (Plant 5, opened ca. '81) closed a few years back and has been remodeled by Ryder Logistics. Lansing Craft Centre (Olds Forge, Plant 2, opened in 1940's using older factories from a non-GM firm), closed this year and is presently mothballed. Lansing Metal Center (Olds Plant 3, opened ca. '52 and made jet engine parts) is down to around 300 employees and will close later this year. Lansing/Delta Regional Stamping (Plant 8) opened in 2003. Lansing/Delta Assembly (Plant 9) will swing into production by the end of the year. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 2851 Registered: 10-2003 |
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20060916/ENT01 /609160399/1033 What: Travel back in time and visit the birthplace of the Model T at the Ford Piquette Plant, the only early Detroit auto factory that remains open to visitors. See where automotive pioneers Henry Ford, the Dodge Brothers, James Couzens and others spent long hours developing ideas. You'll also have a chance to learn about other models built by Ford, and visit the third floor, which hasn't been painted since Ford Motor Company left in 1910. When: 10 a.m.-4 p.m., Oct. 7 and 14. Where: Ford Piquette Plant, 411 Piquette www.tplex.org | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Scrippsbooth Member Username: Scrippsbooth Post Number: 13 Registered: 01-2006 |
Burnsie - Concerning Flint's Fisher Body Plant No. 2 that came on line in 1947, do you know what part of the Chevrolet Assembly plant it occupied? Perhaps the whole second floor? Who owned this Fisher facility - Chevrolet or Fisher? (Message edited by Scrippsbooth on September 20, 2006) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Hhilliker Member Username: Hhilliker Post Number: 1 Registered: 09-2006 |
Hello all. I have been trying to find information about old Detroit car factories for a while with no luck. I am so glad that I found this forum. I grew up around the Flint and Detroit areas and have always been interested how the automobile industry has shaped and changed these cities forever. Mostly, I have always been interested in the glory days. I have been writing a movie set in 1930's Detroit. I have a few scenes that take place in or around car factories. The only problem is I don't know which ones were open at the time and where they were. I need some really great suggestions of the ones that are the most impressive to you all. I also need to know historically what streets they were on and what they specifically made. If anyone could help me I would appreciate it so very very much. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 3016 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hhilliker, Packard would be a good setting for you. It still largely exist as it was in the 1930's and was a luxury car. You could actually walk around it and gather a lot of detail and context. If you look at Hornwrecker's post 1491 above you see some old shots of it. The bottom pick is as it is today -- minus the cars and a few windows. The left half and bridges in the second picture are destroyed in the 2002 halted demolition, not sure where the third is from. See packard in this site. https://www.detroityes.com/webisode s/2002/packard/021025-01Packar dRubble.htm and here: https://www.detroityes.com/industry /22packard.htm Welcome to the forum. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 619 Registered: 12-2005 |
Hhilliker--I'm the Packard idiot savant on the forum, and Lowell is leading you in a good direction. I can give you any historical background you need. You can contact me off-list at 56packman (at) twmi (dot) rr (dot) com. "Ask the man who owns one" | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 1593 Registered: 10-2003 |
Speaking of Packard... Open House at the Packard Proving Grounds Historic Site, Sunday, October 15, 1-5pm. Free admission. Located on Van Dyke between 22 and 23 Mile Rds., Shelby Township. For more info, call 586-739-4800. http://www.packardmotorfdn.org /index.htm | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Randy_g Member Username: Randy_g Post Number: 7 Registered: 08-2006 |
Need more Ideas just click the classic tour and see the packard plant up close and personal for the internet. keep up the great work guys | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Hhilliker Member Username: Hhilliker Post Number: 2 Registered: 09-2006 |
Lowell, thank you for your great suggestion. I have been looking into it. 56packman, I will be contacting you when I come up with a great list of questions. Thank you for the offer. I am really excited to be a part of this forum. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Hhilliker Member Username: Hhilliker Post Number: 3 Registered: 09-2006 |
I'm also trying to find some street maps of Detroit from 1939 and I've been having trouble. Would any of you happen to know where I could find one? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Bob_cosgrove Member Username: Bob_cosgrove Post Number: 385 Registered: 03-2005 |
 The Model T Club associated with the Piquette Avenue Henry Ford Plant (T-Plex) had its annual BBQ and awards meeting last Saturday (September 30) at Edsel & Eleanor Ford's first home in Indian Village on a wet and rainy day. The attached photo shows the Model T's lined up in front of the Ford home. Bob Cosgrove | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker Post Number: 1660 Registered: 04-2005 |
Hhilliker, they occasionally show up for sale on ebay in the collectibles section, or John King Books might be a local source for them; I think they also have a web site listing thing. I've got a 1930s map, but it is currently falling apart. A lot of these maps aren't dated, so you have to guess when they were printed by recognizing when things changed. Anything specific you are looking for, or just want one for your own use? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Iowaboy Member Username: Iowaboy Post Number: 41 Registered: 08-2006 |
This is the way it seems from old magazine advertisements. Hupp moved into the building on East Milwaukee Avenue in 1912. They changed their name from Hupp Motor Car Company to Hupp Motor Car Corporation during the timeframe 1915 to 1917. From the various "agent" photos, the wood sign by the door said Hupp Motor Car Co, while the sign on the door said Hupp Motor Car Corporation. So I figure the "agent" photos were taken soon after the name change (unless they just never bothered the change the sign by the door. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Scrippsbooth Member Username: Scrippsbooth Post Number: 14 Registered: 01-2006 |
Bill Cuthbert in his Hupp book writes the name change from company to Corp. took place on November 19, 1915 when Hupp raised the capital stock from $1,000,000 to 6,500,000. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 183 Registered: 08-2006 |
I took a leisurely drive back from the Toledo toy show today and wound up in Saline. What was the big plant on Michigan Ave that is now Automotive Holdings? Former Visteon nee Ford plant? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Fortress_warren Member Username: Fortress_warren Post Number: 22 Registered: 10-2006 |
Does anyone know which plants were located in Detroit proper in 1976? I can remember Lynch Road, Jefferson, Cadillac. Were there others? The Saline plant I think made wiring harnesses. Van Dyke did as well. We used to ride our dirtbikes out in Shelby, there were long piles of foundry slag about 10' tall. These were a quarter mile long. They had been there for quite a while, 6" diameter trees were growing in them. This was in 72. Somebody told me Ford dumped it there. Is this on or near the Packard grounds? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 191 Registered: 08-2006 |
Talking just assembly plants, or engine, tool and die parts plants too? There was Vernor Tool and Die, (Chrysler), The Dodge viper plant is south of Eight Mile, don't know what that was building in '76. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 342 Registered: 12-2005 |
Fortress_warren, Here is a 1949 aerial view of the southwest corner of 22 Mile Rd. and Shelby Road (the Packard test track is visible at the upper right corner). Are these long rows the slag piles you used to ride on?  Today, this corner is the site of apartment buildings and single-family homes surrounding a pair of small lakes.  | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 731 Registered: 12-2005 |
Mikeg, in case it helps, those are railroad tracks west of those lakes. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker Post Number: 1671 Registered: 04-2005 |
That was formerly a Champion Sparkplug factory near Conner, I think it was built around 1970, so they didn't use it very long. They used to make the ceramic cores for the plugs there. Fortress_ So far there are over 550 factories of various types in the OCF db. I have to start updating it again so we can post it somewhere, sometime (?). | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Fortress_warren Member Username: Fortress_warren Post Number: 26 Registered: 10-2006 |
Yeah, that's them. I wonder what they did with all that slag? You couldn't grow anything in it, it was like crushed glass. I buy this stuff called Green Diamond for use in the sandblaster and bead blast cabinet. It's supposed to be recycled slag. That pile would have been enough for the whole country. I was looking at the wikipedia entry on Coleman A. Young, they mentioned that after about 1950 there wasn't anything of size built in Detroit. It all went into the burbs. It all "Hit 8 mile Road" and kept on going. Hornwrecker, are you a librarian? They are trained for this kind of research. Plus they have access to stuff that the rest of us riff-raff don't. The girlfriend at the time I was riding there is a librarian. Her cousin lived on a street that dead-ended into that pile. I got knocked off the bike by a tree that was like a lance, caught me right, dead-center, in the crotch. I must be stupid, still ride. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1234 Registered: 04-2005 |
 and the show open it came from: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1957379043681891468 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Iowaboy Member Username: Iowaboy Post Number: 42 Registered: 08-2006 |
Hornwrecker, I have some information for you if you care to e-mail me at johniwen@yahoo.com | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5927 Registered: 10-2003 |
I recieved an e-mail today that solves the mystery of this factory I posted somewhere back waaay earlier... 
The person who wrote me the answer is an avid Buick historian, and will likely be joining us soon... | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker Post Number: 1685 Registered: 04-2005 |
Thanks for clearing that up, I spent some time looking it over, enlarging parts of it trying to figure out where it was, and failing. Nice to finally know, and that I'm not totally inept. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5928 Registered: 10-2003 |
You and me both...  | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Sven1977 Member Username: Sven1977 Post Number: 199 Registered: 04-2004 |
Someone has probably listed this site before, but I stumbled across a Detroit Library collection of automobile photos. There are 999 pictures of just Packards. http://mmm.lib.msu.edu/search/ browsedisplay.cfm?t=2&subcol=9 38 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 695 Registered: 12-2005 |
Sven-that is the Packard photographic collection at the NAHC, digitized by MSU. Those photos only exist today because of the late, great Dick Teague "stole" from the front offices of Packard during what he later called "the last days in the bunker". I told that story in a previous OCF post. been there, worshipped that. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kkirbitz Member Username: Kkirbitz Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2006 |
Greetings! I'm the avid Buick historian Aiw mentioned a couple of posts ago. I'm looking for some help in locating some information, maybe a Sanborn map, of the Buick Manufacturing Company from 1901-1902. It was located at 416-418 Howard Street. From what I can tell through looking at other maps on this site, that may have been across the street from St. Anne's Church. While I'm discussing early Buick history in Detroit, I thought I'd clarify an address for Buick Auto-Vim that I've seen on this site a few times. I noticed a discrepancy where some publications list 39 Beaubien while others list 139 Beaubien. According to Larry Gustin, well known Buick historian, he identified 139 as the address based on a Detroit phone directory. However, in the first through fifth editions of his The Buick: A Complete History, a typo resulted in it being shown as 39. This was corrected in the sixth edition and in his subsequent book on David Buick. The outstanding question, though, is whether this puts it in the Boydell Building, as has been suggested, or not? Any maps out there to confirm? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kkirbitz Member Username: Kkirbitz Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2006 |
Here's a vintage 1902 engraving of the Boydell Building as well:  | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 1684 Registered: 10-2003 |
Welcome, Kkirbitz, to the Forum and to the Old Car Factories thread. From research I did using the city directories, I believe that the Buick address on Beaubien does put them near or at the Boydell Building. I remember thinking that the David Buick historical marker that was installed on Atwater should have been up in front of or attached to the Boydell Building. It would be great to have some confirmation of that fact. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Bate Member Username: Bate Post Number: 77 Registered: 02-2005 |
Aiw tipped me to this on his site. http://maps.live.com/ is the new msn maps offering. It blows google maps into the weeds. The maps of Detroit are more current and zoom resolution is amazing. You have to play with the view and double click to peg a location or type the address. Once there try the side-view and it rotates over the point at a 45ish degree angle. I don't think I'll be getting any work done this afternoon. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 2904 Registered: 10-2003 |
416-418 Howard under the old address system would place it on the north side of Howard between 10th & 12th Streets (the addresses on that block ranged from 330-442), and the only Sanborn map I have of that area is from 1921. It shows a collection of buildings belonging to the Mundus Products Co, manufacturers of near beer and soft drinks. Maybe they moved in after Buick left? Farther west on Howard, on the block east of St Anne (across the street?) was a factory of the C.R. Wilson Body Co. It was on the same side of Howard as St Anne; maybe this is being confused with Buick? Beaubien addresses, pre-1921, ranged from 116-146 between E Fort & E Lafayette which is where the Boydell Building is/was located. I think the original Boydell Building was at the southeast corner of Beaubien and Fort which is now home to a parking garage IIRC. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 2905 Registered: 10-2003 |
On closer inspection, I see 139 Beaubien would have been in the building at the northeast corner of Beaubien and Lafayette. This building was separate from the main Boydell offices fronting E Fort and was separated by what looks to be an alley. It may have been owned by Boydell because some sections (in 1921) are listed as a "paint ware house". The section of the building where the 139 address number falls is listed as: a machine shop on the 1st and 2nd floors, a paper box factory on the 3rd floor, the 4th as a "leather stockroom", the 5th as "painting", and the 6th floor also as a machine shop. This section of the building is still standing. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5976 Registered: 10-2003 |
Kkirbitz welcome! I will check out the Howard address when I get home from work.. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kkirbitz Member Username: Kkirbitz Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2006 |
Mikem, That's a great description, but now I'm feeling disoriented, so I need to get my bearings on this one. Based on maps from previous posts, the picture above, and what I remember from being at the Boydell Building, I would have put the northeast corner of Beaubien and Lafayette right where Greektown Casino is today. From the engraving and maps, I also would have said that the main Boydel offices were on Champlain (now Lafayette)right about where the streetcar is shown. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kkirbitz Member Username: Kkirbitz Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2006 |
Here's the Boydell in 2003, as seen from Greektown Casino, along Beaubin (from "David Buick's Marvelous Motor Car.") The location circled is really just a best guess of where Buick Auto-Vim & Power might have been located. However, that's why I'm turning to such a passionate group of historians, to get confirmation!  | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker Post Number: 1698 Registered: 04-2005 |
I've changed the address in the db to 139 Beuabien until it is proved otherwise. Any info on the Buick aircraft engine plant? Buick #75 Aircraft, 1917, 9416 Ford Rd & Wyoming, page 20 OCF/HOF, WWI aircraft Liberty engines | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kkirbitz Member Username: Kkirbitz Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2006 |
I've seen some of the maps for Buick # 75 and I'll do some additional checking of my records. I'm pretty sure that all of the Buick Liberty engines were built in Flint. Maybe this was for planned expansion but the war ended too soon? Buick is said to have produced it's first closed body limousines, 1910 Model 41, in a plant in Detroit. Does it go back that far? On a related question, below is a scan from a 1907 Buick catalog showing one of its four factories sites. One was located in Jackson, two in Flint, and this one is unknown. Does it resemble anything in Detroit? Possibly Buick #75?  | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kkirbitz Member Username: Kkirbitz Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2006 |
I'm on a bit of a roll tonight, so I'll go for one more. Buick & Sherwood Manufacturing was located on the southeast corner of Meldrum and Champlain (Lafayette.) They also had a plant at 213 to 219 Beaufait. The below is from the 1902 catalog of the Standard Sanitary Manufacturing Compamy showing their Beaufait Avenue factory in Detroit. I'm assuming that it's the former B&S factory.  What's really interesting is Mikem's photo of the old Michigan casting plant at 1067 Beaufait, at Lafayette. Look familiar?  | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker Post Number: 1700 Registered: 04-2005 |
Was that the Buick bathtub casting plant, or whatever it was that they made? It's been awhile since I read about it, so I don't remember. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 3266 Registered: 10-2003 |
Great find and connection on the Buick & Sherwood Manufacturing / Michigan Casting Kkirbitz; I drive past it every time I return from Belle Isle. A big welcome to the forum too. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 2907 Registered: 10-2003 |
Kkirbitz, I don't know downtown very well but here is a 1921 Sanborn map of the block with the Boydell Company:  The building fronting Fort in the middle of the block is the Boydell Bros White Leads & Color Co. I don't know if this is "the" Boydell Building or not, and the collection of buildings on that block vary from 3 to 8 stories, not a uniform height like the one in your engraving:  The other building on the north side of that block (southwest corner of Lafayete & Beaubien - my previous post was in error) is a collection of shops and warehouses, including a paint warehouse which leads me to believe that Boydell owned this building as well:  A closeup of the east side next to the alley, where 139 Beaubien would fall:  That's my best guess as to where Buick's shop was when it was on Beuabien. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 2908 Registered: 10-2003 |
I thought Buick #75 was built by/for the federal government, so it could have been a Liberty factory:  I can't remember where in the chain of ownership it belonged to Saxon: US Government->Saxon->Buick->LaSalle->DeSoto? Maybe it was owned and operated by Buick during WWI to build the Liberty and leased to Saxon afterwards. I have another possible source with the answer, but it will be a few weeks before I can follow up on it. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kkirbitz Member Username: Kkirbitz Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2006 |
Mikem, Thanks for the Sanborns. It helps that both new and old numbering is shown. Given the old directory listing showing Buick Auto-Vim & Power at 139 Beaubien, I would call this confirmation that they were indeed located in the still-standing Boydell Building. In the billhead engraving of the Boydell I posted yesterday, let me add a little more information that was cropped from the scan: BOYDELL BROTHERS OFFICE & SHIPPING DEPT. 40, 42, 44, &46 Champlain St. WORKS 33, 41, &43 Fort St. East STORE Corner Bates & Congress Streets | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kkirbitz Member Username: Kkirbitz Post Number: 8 Registered: 10-2006 |
Hornwrecker, Yes, Buick & Sherwood made bathtubs, toilets, tanks, seats, and fixtures. David Buick started getting interested in gasoline engines around 1895 and didn't sell his interests in B&S until 1899. That would lead me to assert that the castings for the first Buick engines were made in the B&S foundry. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 295 Registered: 08-2006 |
Sad! Put one of my cars up for sale, the link is in the classified section. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Sven1977 Member Username: Sven1977 Post Number: 200 Registered: 04-2004 |
I have a Sanborn map which may show MikeM's casting plant above. Somewhere in all of these pages, I included a Sanborn of the Boydell building in Greektown.  | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5980 Registered: 10-2003 |
Here's what I came up with for the Howard St. address. It would have been the N.W. corner of Howard & 12th. Whatever Buick did there, it must have been a very temporary location... None of the older maps solve your mystery... 1884:  410-416 Howard was occupied by the Jacob Darmstaetter Brewery. Basically an ice house and a malt house. The corner property (all with 12th addresses) was occupied by the W.E. Maloney Brewery. 1897:  In 1897 The West Side Brewing Co. could be found occupying 412 & 416 Howard. The brew house being at 412 and the bottling work at 416. They produced 20,000 barrels a year. They also owned and erected a wagon shed across the alley with Abbot St. address (385-387). The corner property was still owned by the W.F. Moloney Vienna Brewery (much like city directories the spelling and names could vary wildly from year to year). Their addresses were 74,76,78 12th & 420 Howard. 420 was their bottling works. The entire property was surrounded by an 8 foot high brick wall. Moloney only produced 8000 barrels of beer a year. 1921:  Buick has by now been and gone from this location. The property that was 400-412-418 Howard & 379-397 Abbot is now Mundus Products Co. Ltd. Manufacturers of Near Beer and Soft Drinks. 400 Howard Shows an office with a machine shop to the rear. 397 Abbott shows a Machinery Factory. Of note 397 Abbott is listed as a private garage with capacity for 25 cars and trucks. The building that was 420 in 1897 is gone. The corner property is now home to Lambert & Lowman Manufacturing Chemists. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Iowaboy Member Username: Iowaboy Post Number: 44 Registered: 08-2006 |
In 1928 the Hupp Motor Car Corp purchased the Huebner Lumber and Manufacturing Co plant across the street. Business was so good that Hupp was considering future expansion. That is according to Bill Cuthbert in his book The Hupmobile Story. The Huebner water tower is pictured in the background of the photo posted by Hornwrecker, post number 1446, August 19, 2006. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5996 Registered: 10-2003 |
Here's one... An executive?  I bought this photo years ago, it was taken by the Manning Brothers. I was wondering if we could ID the man? Note the munitions on the right. War production? Also, check the photo over his desk... Some kind of factory:  A zoom in on the plant...  A head detail...  Otherwise, has anyone had any experience with the Manning Brothers Collection? There must be an index somewhere, where I could cross-reference the photo number. Any thoughts/ideas? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 316 Registered: 08-2006 |
War production would have to be WW1, doubtful he would be using that hook and cup style phone in the 40s. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5998 Registered: 10-2003 |
You are right. I'm guessing the date on the photo to be about 1925-ish... | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kkirbitz Member Username: Kkirbitz Post Number: 9 Registered: 10-2006 |
The factory photo is a lot older than 1925. It looks like the typical etching used on letterheads in the 1890s. Also note how it has slid down in the frame. For that era, it looks to be a pretty large factory complex. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 317 Registered: 08-2006 |
The factory photo shows some smaller machines that look like truck engines, possible they are for manufacturing ammo, this is a Munitions factory. Now, is it European or American I wonder, may be even German. I like that big persian rug, those came into vogue in the 1890s. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5999 Registered: 10-2003 |
I agree. The factory in the photo is older than the actual photograph. Cambrian, this photo is from Detroit (or the immediate area). It was stamped on the back with the Manning Brothers Photographers stamp. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 1693 Registered: 10-2003 |
When I first saw the image, I knew it looked familiar. My first inclination is Detroit Stove Works..., http://www.detroithistorical.o rg/collections/vewebsite5/exhi bit4/e40041b.htm or http://www.detroithistorical.o rg/collections/vewebsite5/exhi bit4/e40081b.htm Maybe Michigan Car Works? http://www.detroithistorical.o rg/collections/vewebsite5/exhi bit4/e40069b.htm | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Meliasz Member Username: Meliasz Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2006 |
Hi! I am new to the forum. WOW!!! I went through the 22 archived Old Car Factories forums available but I have not found anything on my great-uncle's factory: Wilson Body - Hastings & Grand Trunk RR [circa 1918] Any info or pics out there? I'd love to have a Sanborn map image of that area from about that era(1918) and if wishes can come true, Sanborn map image(s)of: Dublin (near 121) Ave in Hamtramck and Craig St (JUST south of Hamtramck). These streets no longer exist (Poletown Plant, etc.) These are where my grandfather and his brother lived/worked. Thanks! --mike | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Mjb3 Member Username: Mjb3 Post Number: 117 Registered: 11-2004 |
Unbelievable thread! I have been on Detroit Yes for years and never realized all the information available on the OCF pages. I was wondering if the brain trust out there could give me some history on one of my favorite factory buildings. The address is 5435 W. Fort at the corner of Junction. See link. Someone once told me it was part of Timken back in the day. It used to have a giant clock at the top but that was sold/stolen by scrappers. I also was told that this was an Albert Kahn building. The city of Detroit website lists it built in 1927. It's been vacant for yrs, listed and re-listed to no avail. Can anyone tell me more about this bldg? Is it really a Kahn bldg? Thank You.  | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 6042 Registered: 10-2003 |
Mjb3. It first shows up on the map from 1921 (the next one back is 1897) as the Roberts Brass Mfg. Co., The next set of maps dates to 1950, and they were still there as the Roberts Brass Co.  | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 6043 Registered: 10-2003 |
Meliasz, sorry no luck with a Wilson Body. Here are the 1921 maps from Hastings @ GTRR.  South West side of the GTRR Jenks & Muir Mfg. Co.  North East side of the GTRR Goodyear Rubber However up on the Corner of Hastings & EGB is an un-named Auto Body Assembly & Paint shop. It's close to the GTRR, but not next to it.  South East side of the GTRR is the Mansfield Steel Corporation. Manufacturers of Steel Auto Truck Dump Bodies. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 1751 Registered: 10-2003 |
From OCF #4, Mikem's posting dated March 23, 2005, 12:57am: "C. R. Wilson Body Company, incorporated 1899. This business was the outgrowth of that started in 1870, when C. R. Wilson came to Detroit and in 1875 began the manufacture of buggy woodwork. In 1876 he was joined by his brother, J. C., and the company was incorporated in 1886 as the C. R. & J. C. Wilson Carriage Woodwork Company. The brother afterward sold his interests in the company and the name became the C. R. Wilson Body Company. C. R. Wilson became interested early in the automobile development, in the manufacture of bodies for the machines, and in this way became connected with the founders of the Ford, Olds, and Cadillac plants. His first work was done for these makers. This company now, which in normal times employs about 2,500 men, has its principal plant located on Clay Avenue and the Grand Trunk Railroad." https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/6790/40963.html?11119058 86 Also from the Coachbuilt history page on the C.R. Wilson Company and its successors: "Charles R. Wilson died suddenly in 1924, and faced with an uncertain future and no strong leadership within the firm, so the board of directors approached another Wilson for help. Although Detroit banker William Robert Wilson shared the same last name as the firm’s recently departed founder and president, they were not related. However, Wilson, who also happened to be the president of Detroit’s Guardian Trust Co., had once been president of the Maxell Motor Corp. and was keenly interested in getting back into the automobile business. He brokered a deal whereby the C.R. Wilson Body Co., J.W. Murray Mfg. Co., Towson Body Co., and the J.C. Widman Body Co. would merge, forming the Murray Body Corporation under the leadership of John W. Murray. The two larger firms, Wilson and Murray, had longstanding contracts with the Ford Motor Co. and were in good financial shape, and the other two employed craftsmen with specialized skills that would be beneficial to the new firm. Unfortunately, the new firm was in receivership within the year. However they emerged a few months later as the Murray Corp. of America, but that story is continued on the Murray page." The Murray Body Co. building is still standing at Clay and the I-75 service drive. http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/ w/wilson_c_r/wilson_c_r.htm Hope some of this helps clarify the mystery for Meliasz. Welcome to the Forum!!! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Michigandriveins Member Username: Michigandriveins Post Number: 7 Registered: 11-2006 |
Any Ford guys here? Fast forward to more modern times, 1964. LOL This is Dearborn Steel Tubing at 25241 Trowbridge St., where '64 Fairlanes were converted into Thunderbolt drag cars. I'd be interested in finding out more about DST.  | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Michigandriveins Member Username: Michigandriveins Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2006 |
Any Ford guys here? Fast forward to more modern times, 1964. LOL This is Dearborn Steel Tubing at 25241 Trowbridge St., where '64 Fairlanes were converted into Thunderbolt drag cars. I'd be interested in finding out more about DST.  | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Toolbox Member Username: Toolbox Post Number: 1015 Registered: 10-2003 |
DST is still around and located in Romulus. When I was at Ford we would send most test cars to DST after we were finished with them. Once at DST most cars would be scrapped and parts inventoried for later reuse when the need arose in future testing needs. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Scrippsbooth Member Username: Scrippsbooth Post Number: 15 Registered: 01-2006 |
I was looking through some annual reports of the Scripps-Booth Corp which they listed several different plants [they must have rented]in the 1916-1918 period. The address listed are: 960 Lafayette 1320 12th 1884 Mt Elliot Can anyone locate these old car factories? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker Post Number: 1705 Registered: 04-2005 |
The only one I've found so far is the Mt Elliot one, or close to it. No other info on the company than what is below. S & M Motor Co (1912-1913), 1890 Mt Elliot, less than 40 built | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Meliasz Member Username: Meliasz Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2006 |
AIW - Thank you for the maps! Kathleen - Thank you for connecting the dots (CR Wilson = Wilson Body) and for the excellent link that provided the background I was looking for (and more). Fabulous web site and definitely one of the best forums I have EVER encountered [and I thought that BEFORE I got my answers!] | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Sven1977 Member Username: Sven1977 Post Number: 201 Registered: 04-2004 |
Here's what I have on Scripps on Lincoln. The road is on the right and the tracks are on top. I'm not sure what year the map is from. When I first started taking pictures of the maps, I didn't take notes because I didn't realize how much we would be using the maps as reference.  | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Sruffing Member Username: Sruffing Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2006 |
Hello! I live in Florida however my great grand father worked and lived in Detroit. According to the 1930 census he was a laborer in an Auto Factory. He, my great grandmother and grandmother lived at 315 Canfield Avenue in Detroit as boarders. According to some research he may have worked at the Ford plants in Dearborn and Rover Rouge(he was filipino and most filipino workers worked at the Ford plants according to this article) Would anyone here know where else he may have worked? Also any information on the Ford plants at that time period. Thank you so much everyone! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 423 Registered: 08-2006 |
Is there a way to access a companies archives and see what job's an ancestor had? On this thread are the people who would know. If there is I have a bunch of relative's I would like to research. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kkirbitz Member Username: Kkirbitz Post Number: 10 Registered: 10-2006 |
Sven1977 (or any others) - I have a follow-up question to your post number 200 showing the Sanborn for the Detroit Motor Casting Company. I'm trying to prove definitively whether or not this is one of the Buick & Sherwood plants. I have ads which state Buick & Sherwood operated at 213-219 Beaufait in 1896 and 299-405 Beaufort in 1899. How do these relate to current street numbering? I can't find any reference to a Beaufort Street, so I'm thinking it may be a typo and should be 299-405 Beaufait. Does that relate to 1067 Beaufait today? I had difficulty reading the printing on the Sanborn you had posted. Clarification on this would help me a lot! Also, if anyone has a Sanborn showing 373 Meldrum, that's where David Buick lived in Detroit. Thanks! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 6075 Registered: 10-2003 |
When did Buick live on Meldrum? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 817 Registered: 12-2005 |
Great Holiday wishes for a Merry Christmas (called "holiday" in 2006) and a happy new year from the Packard Motor car company, who invites you to visit your dealer and see the new 1953 models.  photo from the MSU made in Michigan site, vis-a-vis the Detroit public library NAHC collection (Message edited by 56packman on December 18, 2006) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
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